Trade for Realmuto or sign Grandal

[totdprods]

Just now, Halokingfish said:

We could conceivably wait to see where Realmuto lands and see if it displaces a catcher that makes sense to trade for

That’s why I listed Barnhart, and to a lesser degree, Hedges. Tampa has been rumored as a suitor though, and while I imagine Zunino would likely go to Miami, he’d also be a great target if he wound up on the block. 

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, RBM said:

We should sign Grandal and Tulowitzki. Keep the prospects. May need one or two if we trade for a pitcher before the deadline to help get us deep into the playoffs.

This is a good outcome too.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

This is a good outcome too.

factor in full roster, who do you lose?

[UndertheHalo]

If it has to be one I’d go with signing Grandal.  But not with a ton of enthusiasm.  Maldonado is a shitty bat and older.  There’s no reason to bring him back. They probably get similar production from the 3 guys they have now.  Why give a guy who doesn’t substantially make you better a contract ?  IMO you don’t.  I suspect he’s looking for more then a 1 year deal. 

If the rumors are true about what the Marlins are asking for the Angels just don’t have the resources to do it.  

Grandal makes the line up deeper and is a good pitch framer.  Apparently.  I don’t really think much of the pitch framing stuff.  His defense was troubling last year but some of that may have just been in his head.  My concern with him is giving a 30+ y/o catcher a multi year fairy substantial contract.  Not only that but the loss of the comp pick and the international money is not ideal.  That all said, the other side of it is that FA is what it is.  Young, good catchers don’t often come to the market.  So Grandal may be the best we can do.  Anyway, I could take it or leave it.  I don’t feel strongly about it. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

If it has to be one I’d go with signing Grandal.  But not with a ton of enthusiasm.  Maldonado is a shitty bat and older.  There’s no reason to bring him back. They probably get similar production for the 3 guys they have now.  Why give a guy who doesn’t substantially make you better a contract ?  IMO you don’t.  I suspect he’s looking for more then a 1 year deal. 

If the rumors are true about what the Marlins are asking for the Angels just don’t have the resources to do it.  

Grandal makes the line up deeper and is a good pitch framer.  Apparently.  I don’t really think much of the pitch framing stuff.  His defense was troubling last year but some of that may have just been in his head.  My concern with him is giving a 30+ y/o catcher a multi year fairy substantial contract.  Not only that but the loss of the comp pick and the international money is not ideal.  That all said, the other side was of it is that FA is what it is.  Young, good catchers don’t often come to the market.  So Grandal may be the best we can do.  Anyway, I could take it or leave it.  I don’t feel strongly about it. 

i think thats true what they asked for, but it also seems clear they arent going to get it 

[Docwaukee]

the current team is a risk management nightmare.  there's big upside and big downside.  both of which are equally likely imo.  Because of that, I would definitely not add more risk by moving controlled cheap production for 2 years or less of any player.  That includes Realmuto.  We still have 5 positions, two rotation spots and the vast majority of our pen that are uncertain at best. I feel better about them now than I did entering the off season, but the problems have been solved with duct tape and gorilla glue.  

Grandal makes more sense if you can mitigate some risk by keeping his contract to three years with an option.  Losing the 2nd round pick would be a bummer but not a deal breaker.  But the question still stands.  Have we done enough otherwise to where the addition of Grandal moves the needle to where paying a 32 yo catcher something like 18m in the final year of his three year deal is worth it?  Could he be the difference in the next two years?  I think the answer to that is yes.  He could be.  He probably won't be, but it's possible and maybe that's enough to justify bringing him in at this point.  So if we sign him for 3yrs or less, fine.  If we don't, fine.  If we give him four years, I won't like that.  

Maldonado would be fine.    

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, RBM said:

We should sign Grandal and Tulowitzki. Keep the prospects. May need one or two if we trade for a pitcher before the deadline to help get us deep into the playoffs.

and a much safer approach.  What you've got at mid year is more likely what you'll get the rest of the year.  Right now, you just don't know at all.  

[HaloNArizona]

Slim pickings on the catcher FA market....

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

i think thats true what they asked for, but it also seems clear they arent going to get it 

the problem is that they keep asking.  They haven't realized they aren't getting what they want. 

as RPM mentioned, save that prospect capital for the deadline so you can at least see if you're in it.  The difference between Grandal and Realmuto isn't likely going to be material over half a season.  If it's working out, get yourself a pitcher.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

52 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

So tired of black holes every season at one position or another 

Every team has black holes at one position or another.

Guess which team had the worst offense in the majors at catcher last season?

[Jeff Fletcher]

Also I can confirm that what the Marlins wanted a lot for Realmuto. Maybe they'll change their tune as the suitors shrink.

Honestly, that's how they ought to do it. There's no advantage to trading him on November 10 instead of Jan. 10. Ask for the moon. See what you get. Also makes other teams feel they're getting a discount if you come off your position.

[floplag]

6 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the problem is that they keep asking.  They haven't realized they aren't getting what they want. 

as RPM mentioned, save that prospect capital for the deadline so you can at least see if you're in it.  The difference between Grandal and Realmuto isn't likely going to be material over half a season.  If it's working out, get yourself a pitcher.  

oh i agree, im just saying that at the end of the day Mia will regret turning down some of these offers i think.  I would much rather give up the one 2nd rounder at this point versus a giant overpay in prospects if it comes to that.  My only interest in REalmuto was if i could get it done without losing critical prospects, but it seems clear it wouldnt happen without Adell or Canning so walk away. 
I think he ends up in Hou with tucker as  the core of the deal personally, but thats just opinion. 
This is why i though about going another direction.

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Every team has black holes at one position or another.

Guess which team had the worst offense in the majors at catcher last season?

I get that but it’s gone from left field to second, to first to catcher to forever the bullpen. 

I’m going to guess Boston because that would make too perfect of a point. 

[Dick Enberg]

3 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I get that but it’s gone from left field to second, to first to catcher to forever the bullpen. 

I’m going to guess Boston because that would make too perfect of a point. 

I think your correct!

[beatlesrule]

A team that trades for Realmuto is already good or really good with a farm that can take the hit. Angels are none of those things. No way he comes here. Signing Grandal would require a draft pick and a lot of money. I don't think either are realistic.

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Also I can confirm that what the Marlins wanted a lot for Realmuto. Maybe they'll change their tune as the suitors shrink.

Honestly, that's how they ought to do it. There's no advantage to trading him on November 10 instead of Jan. 10. Ask for the moon. See what you get. Also makes other teams feel they're getting a discount if you come off your position.

not sure that's the best plan because they've essentially lost a ton of potential suitors.  WSN, NYM, HOU, TBR, and ATL have all gone in different directions.  Start reasonable high and get a couple teams to try and outbid the other.  

Plus, it's not just those teams going out and filling the C position but spending their money and prospect capitol in other areas.  Like if the Dogs use their surplus of OFers to get Kluber instead of Realmuto.  

Personally, I think they've shot themselves in the foot.  He value is completely wasted to the current team and he's not gonna stay long term so his value declines every single day.  Even during the off season for the reasons I mentioned.  

[Docwaukee]

the other caveat is that they actually do have a deal on the table that they like but they are currently out shopping it.  

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Halodays said:

Are Thaiss and Ward really that bad behind the plate that the Angels wouldn't consider moving them back ?

Ward is good defensively, but offensively he struggled while also dealing with the rigors of catching. He also doesn't call a good game, which is something Sciosica (and now Ausmus) would've taught him.

Thaiss was never a catcher in the minors, so probably bad, yes.

[Angelsjunky]

Grandal + Marsh, Suarez, Barria, Rengifo >>>> Realmuto + 2nd round draft pick

The above four young players are at least equal to a 2nd round draft pick, so it is essentially asking whether Realmuto is worth three more 2nd round draft picks. I'd say no.

But as Doc said, I'd only sign Grandal if he'd take a three year deal.

[ettin]

6 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

If we could sign Kikuchi or Keuchel would you trade Barria, Suarez, Marsh & one of Jones/Fletcher/Ward/Rengifo for Realmuto?

That's a massive overpay. Better to just sign Grandal and lose the 2nd round pick than just give away so much. In fact it would be better to just pick up two low budget catchers, one a MLB asset and the other a AAA asset, that can hit right-handed pitching and just run cheap platoons out there based on matchups with depth at Salt Lake.

[Stradling]

Sign Kikuchi and Grandal, trade Skaggs for a couple of top 100 prospects to replace the lost draft pick.  Even if Skaggs doesn’t warrant two top 100 picks you can probably get one and a fringe I would think. 

[JAHV76]

I would be fine if the Angels signed Maldonado  and added more offense at 2B with DJ LeMahieu he would be a good lead off option next year.

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sign Kikuchi and Grandal, trade Skaggs for a couple of top 100 prospects to replace the lost draft pick.  Even if Skaggs doesn’t warrant two top 100 picks you can probably get one and a fringe I would think. 

Given Kikuchi's shoulder issues -- wouldnt it make more sense to KEEP Skaggs?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Given Kikuchi's shoulder issues -- wouldnt it make more sense to KEEP Skaggs?

I get your point, I just think that if we are afraid to trade for a player that has a pick attached then there might be a way to lessen that blow.

[Lou]

injury risk!

sign Kikuchi!

i love AW