Tulo only costs 555k

[Hubs]

He can't make more money than the Jays are paying him (19M per season AAV). He was released, he wasn't bought out.

He makes 20M this year and 14M next, plus a 4M buyout in 2021.

The Jays will be on the hook for all of this, except the 555k per year league minimum if a team signs him in 19 and 20.

If he can contribute, it's a no brainer. Health and access to playing time are keys to signing him.

[eligrba]

I'm cheaper.

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I'm cheaper.

yeah but you can't hit a slider.

[HaloMilliVanilli]

I know the guy is injury prone, but seems like a low risk/ high return move.  I'm for it.  Tell him he's the starting 3b if he comes home.  He can be waived if he's a POS or DLed if/when injured.  Could be traded in the summer if doing better than expected (unless WE are doing better than expected).

[UndertheHalo]

He costs a roster spot. 

[Second Base]

If there's still something left in the tank, then Troy Tulowitzki will be the Angels starting 3B.  I'm just not convinced this is the case. I guess we'll see. 

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If there's still something left in the tank, then Troy Tulowitzki will be the Angels starting 3B.  I'm just not convinced this is the case. I guess we'll see. 

If by a miracle there is something left in the tank, he's certainly cheaper than Moose would be for the Halos. 

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

If by a miracle there is something left in the tank, he's certainly cheaper than Moose would be for the Halos. 

He actually makes a lot of sense for the Angels, surprisingly.  They have an infield spot open, either at 2B or 3B, are a competitive team, and would represent a bit of a homecoming for him.  They have a little money to spend, but not so much that they can afford much more than Tulo, and they finally now have the actual depth to endure a disappointing or injury riddled season from Cozart and Tulo. So they could roll into 2019 with them penciled in and if they get the job done, great, the Angels are in a great position.  But, if they don't perform so well or get hurt, the Angels can roll with Fletcher, Rengifo, or Ward. 

So I wouldn't be opposed, but ti's largely dependent upon where Tulo is as a player right now. Is there still some thunder in that bat?  Can he still pick it in the infield?

[Docwaukee]

guarantee him a starting gig.  Let him play for a month or two.  If he sucks then you cut him.  If he ends up on the DL as expected, then you still have the same personnel available and just plug them in.  

[eligrba]

50 minutes ago, Tank said:

yeah but you can't hit a slider.

It's worse than that:

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

guarantee him a starting gig.  Let him play for a month or two.  If he sucks then you cut him.  If he ends up on the DL as expected, then you still have the same personnel available and just plug them in.  

I'm thinking this might be damaging to the Angels reputation among players.

Otherwise yeah, tell him whatever he wants to hear.

[Second Base]

39 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

guarantee him a starting gig.  Let him play for a month or two.  If he sucks then you cut him.  If he ends up on the DL as expected, then you still have the same personnel available and just plug them in.  

And that's pretty much what every single team in the majors is saying right now.  The Angels really have to sell him on being home in So-Cal, playing alongside Mike Trout, reviving his career where it's sunny and warm, playing alongside Shohei Ohtani and Albert Pujols, this being an experience he wont' forget, the fact that we have a legitimate shot at the playoffs, etc....

[Torridd]

Why are we suddenly acting like the Tampa Bay Rays? I'm discouraged by all this bargain basement shopping. This team is not a goodwill organization. I'm sorry. I'm not used to this. I'm also not convinced by doing business this way that we'll be perennial competitors in a year or so. Otherwise, what's the point? It's not like we were in the playoffs yesterday. Lastly, our top minor leaguers don't all scream successes. I'm not pessimistic in nature, but I don't like this direction, barring a big acquisition/trade in the months to come.

[eligrba4ever]

In terms of "baseball economics," this could work for the Angels. Tulo could be this season's version of Kinsler, except cheaper. All the money is on Toronto. The Angels would be playing with other people's money. He'd almost be a Rule 5, without the requirement to keep him.

[Blarg]

There is no requirement to keep a rule 5 and just like Tulo you can't ship him to the minors.

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Tank said:

yeah but you can't hit a slider.

How hard can it be to hit a slider?

[Hubs]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

He actually makes a lot of sense for the Angels, surprisingly.  They have an infield spot open, either at 2B or 3B, are a competitive team, and would represent a bit of a homecoming for him.  They have a little money to spend, but not so much that they can afford much more than Tulo, and they finally now have the actual depth to endure a disappointing or injury riddled season from Cozart and Tulo. So they could roll into 2019 with them penciled in and if they get the job done, great, the Angels are in a great position.  But, if they don't perform so well or get hurt, the Angels can roll with Fletcher, Rengifo, or Ward.  

So I wouldn't be opposed, but ti's largely dependent upon where Tulo is as a player right now. Is there still some thunder in that bat?  Can he still pick it in the infield?

They could add a guy who makes $10-12M if they wanted to like Moustakas, I don't see the benefit personally, with that low OBP, to pay $10M per season.

But realistically, they can sign Tulo and it costs the same as playing Ward. Now I like Ward, and I think he'll contribute. But there's nothing wrong with bringing Tulo into camp and saying its an open competition. La Stella (though maybe he won't go), Ward, Fletcher, Renfigo, Thaiss, all have options. All will be at SLC at some point in 2019.

Is an infield of 3B Tulo, SS Simmons, 2B Cozart, 1B Bour/Pujols, and Grandal a bad infield?

Arguably, Ward, Fletcher, Renfigo, and Thaiss with Briceno at C in SLC may be a better infield, but you have veterans up.

 

[Second Base]

53 minutes ago, Hubs said:

They could add a guy who makes $10-12M if they wanted to like Moustakas, I don't see the benefit personally, with that low OBP, to pay $10M per season.

But realistically, they can sign Tulo and it costs the same as playing Ward. Now I like Ward, and I think he'll contribute. But there's nothing wrong with bringing Tulo into camp and saying its an open competition. La Stella (though maybe he won't go), Ward, Fletcher, Renfigo, Thaiss, all have options. All will be at SLC at some point in 2019.

Is an infield of 3B Tulo, SS Simmons, 2B Cozart, 1B Bour/Pujols, and Grandal a bad infield?

Arguably, Ward, Fletcher, Renfigo, and Thaiss with Briceno at C in SLC may be a better infield, but you have veterans up.

 

I like Ward too. The adjustments he's made at the plate could make him into a high OBP decent speed and decent power option at 3B, he's just at that frustrating stage where he's too good for the minors, but not good enough to claim a regular role in the majors yet. And you can't ever tell if a prospect will or won't. Brandon Wood and Kaleb Cowart come to mind, as guys that were ready for reserve roles in the majors and were too good for the minors at an early age, but they never developed further than that.  

[WeatherWonk]

28 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Why are we suddenly acting like the Tampa Bay Rays? I'm discouraged by all this bargain basement shopping. This team is not a goodwill organization. I'm sorry. I'm not used to this. I'm also not convinced by doing business this way that we'll be perennial competitors in a year or so. Otherwise, what's the point? It's not like we were in the playoffs yesterday. Lastly, our top minor leaguers don't all scream successes. I'm not pessimistic in nature, but I don't like this direction, barring a big acquisition/trade in the months to come.

Son, this kind of viewpoint is blasphemous around here.

Go with the flow! Release your inner Dollar Tree and accept Arte as your savior!

 

 

[totdprods]

15 hours ago, Hubs said:

They could add a guy who makes $10-12M if they wanted to like Moustakas, I don't see the benefit personally, with that low OBP, to pay $10M per season.

But realistically, they can sign Tulo and it costs the same as playing Ward.

I wouldn't be concerned about Moustakas' OBP woes if we added Grandal (.341 career OBP), especially on the heels of adding Bour (.344 career OBP) and La Stella (.345 career OBP). Plus, Moustakas really doesn't strike out much - in his last five full seasons, he's topped 100 strikeouts once - and barely at 104. He at least puts the ball in play. He'd be a great power add to go with our OBP acquisitions for 1B, C, and bench. His SLG is right in line with that of Justin Upton, behind Trout and Ohtani. 

I get that his career OBP is abysmal at .307, but he's nudged it up to .324 in his last four seasons. In fact, that's a tick above league-average (.322) in that time.
Couple that with the legitimate power source he's become, his seemingly low price tag, and the sound defense, I think he'd be a perfect fit. He gives us added depth at 1B too if Pujols is still Pujols, and if Bour winds up regressing. 

Tulo is definitely of interest as well, but I don't think Moose will cost very much and has a lot more track record.

Moustakas 2018: .251/.315/.459/.774 with 33 doubles, 28 HR, 49 BB, 103 strikeouts
Angels 3B in 2018: .220/.278/.369/.648 with 31 doubles, 18 HR, 43 BB, 166 strikeouts.
Ward (40), Fletcher (29), Cozart (33), and Valbuena (52) were the main players.

Cozart moves to 2B, where he'd have to top this line:
Angels 2B in 2018: .237/.294/.374/.668 with 35 doubles, 15 HR, 45 BB, 89 K
Kinsler (90) and Fletcher (43) received most of the playing time.

I think Cozart will be good for at least .250/.300/.400.
Interestingly, I also noticed Cozart hit really well at 2B last year. Small sample size, but...
.277/.342/.492/.835 in 15 G/65 AB. Maybe he felt a lot more comfortable playing up the middle?

[totdprods]

Personally, I'd love to see a line-up like...
SS Simmons, CF Trout, DH Ohtani,
This trio is all about getting on-base, being quick on the bases, and scoring early in the game. 

LF Upton, 3B Moustakas, 1B Pujols/Bour,
This trio is pure power - taking advantage of the speed/OBP ahead of them at the top of the order. Counting on XBH/RBI.

C Grandal, 2B Cozart, RF Calhoun
This trio re-sets the order; all are offensive wild-cards, but all have in recent years done a good job working the count and bringing occasional power.
All three do have occasional flashes of high OBP production too, and while the middle of the line-up is slow, the end starts getting a little quicker for the top of the line-up.
One or two may be a dud, but it's unlikely all three will fall flat, and if they do hit well, it's a very deep line-up.

[Turd Ferguson]

18 hours ago, Dochalo said:

guarantee him a starting gig.  Let him play for a month or two.  If he sucks then you cut him.  If he ends up on the DL as expected, then you still have the same personnel available and just plug them in.  

Works for me.

[Inside Pitch]

17 hours ago, Torridd said:

Why are we suddenly acting like the Tampa Bay Rays? I'm discouraged by all this bargain basement shopping. This team is not a goodwill organization. I'm sorry. I'm not used to this. I'm also not convinced by doing business this way that we'll be perennial competitors in a year or so. Otherwise, what's the point? It's not like we were in the playoffs yesterday. Lastly, our top minor leaguers don't all scream successes. I'm not pessimistic in nature, but I don't like this direction, barring a big acquisition/trade in the months to come.

In part because acting like the Yankees backed us into a corner.   It's not like Tamp Bay is stupid either...   

I'm not understanding the hate for a Tulo acquisition -- it's a non investment that doesn't impede anything the team is trying to do.  I wouldn't trade assets for him, I wouldn't get into a FA battle for him, but for league minimum they have nothing to lose.

[Blarg]

The way I look at Tulo is he doesn't move the team forward to the goal of filling spots with cost controlled minor league talent. He shuts out the development at the major leagues Fletcher, Ward and Rengifo pushing then back another year making 2020 a learning curve. The Angels may win a few more games or not but they won't have made the move forward, it's lateral. 

[jgimondo]

19 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

He costs a roster spot. 

He can start at 3rd base , until Ward is ready. He can play SS,2B and 1B, Why not sign him, if he cant play dump him its $550,000. league minimum.