Is the 'Arte Factor' a concern?

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, ettin said:

There is a discipline involved in this process that Eppler must follow or we end up spending a lot of money for on-field product that doesn't move the needle enough to matter.

This is why @Dochalo is concerned right now because our rotation needs work and good solutions are falling off the board at pretty hefty prices (which was to be expected in this heavy open payroll environment). Do you chase the shiny objects or stick to your game plan? That is the conundrum the team is in right now.

We are right on the cusp of accelerating into real competitiveness but Billy has to be careful here of what resources he applies where. A really wrong move can set this whole process back while a really good one can push it forward.

Overpaying by a couple mil isnt quite the same as the shiny object though.   i understand the logic, i get the fiscal sense of it, but at some point we have to do something if we intend to even make a token effort to compete in 19.  Right now that seems very far away with each fiscally sound decision.  Were going to have to make some competitively sound ones soon or it will be moot. 

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

I didn't claim anything other than this business is a free market.  You want the player you pay the price, merit isnt the issue.   Most players in this game are grossly overpayed as a result. 

I truly hope that you aren't a business owner. 

Merit should always be the issue. 

[Lou]

On November 2, 2018 at 3:49 PM, floplag said:

Do not want on Happ at 16M per, sorry, no way no how i want to lay out that much to a 36 year old, ever, if i have a choice.  Way better options out there for that money

I agree 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Very aware thank you but yes, losing with the same bid is different in my opinion. 
If he chooses someone else due to better chance to win or be close to home or whatever that a very different scenario than choosing them as we were significantly under price.  
Im not suggesting they didnt make an effort only that they reached a point they decided not to pass.  Probably fiscally correct in truth but the reality is that we still have holes to fill and the upgrades are coming off the board quick.

It's not an auction Flop.  There's dialogue.  

If the Yankees get to x, then the Angels ask if they match x, will it make a difference.  Then the player/agent say no.  So the Angels don't up their offer.  

So let's assume they would have made the same bid.  How does that change things?  they didn't get the player.  

[ettin]

3 hours ago, hangin n wangin said:

 

More penii talk....

In all seriousness. I want Arte no where near baseball decisions. His Pujols, Hamilton, and Wells decisions were enough.

He needs to sit his old ass down and let the baseball men to do their job.

With a name like 'hangin n wangin' I would expect no less. 

[floplag]

37 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

It's not an auction Flop.  There's dialogue.  

If the Yankees get to x, then the Angels ask if they match x, will it make a difference.  Then the player/agent say no.  So the Angels don't up their offer.  

So let's assume they would have made the same bid.  How does that change things?  they didn't get the player.  

We dont know that, maybe they would have.  Doesnt matter at this point its conjecture either way. .
Dont get me wrong as i said i wouldnt have liked spending that much on him, thats not the point. The point is only that im not giving a ton of credit for simply having conversations, nothing more or less.  
However, i suspect were going to overspend on whoever we end up getting at this point, assuming we end up getting any of them. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

I agree 

Good, since i wasnt arguing we should have made that deal.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

We dont know that, maybe they would have.  Doesnt matter at this point its conjecture either way. .
Dont get me wrong as i said i wouldnt have liked spending that much on him, thats not the point. The point is only that im not giving a ton of credit for simply having conversations, nothing more or less.  
However, i suspect were going to overspend on whoever we end up getting at this point, assuming we end up getting any of them. 

Narrative

[Lou]

27 minutes ago, floplag said:

Good, since i wasnt arguing we should have made that deal.

but you're saying we're have to overpay if we want top free agents, so who should we have signed and for how much money and how many years?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

6 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If Arte really did have his hands in the Hamilton or Pujols signings you have to think that he has learned his lesson by now. 

I don't know of any GM with an ounce of sense who would have given a 32-year-old Albert Pujols a ten-year backloaded contract. 

[Lou]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

Offers that were 15-20% lower than others, at least in the case of Happ.

link? (being serious because I haven't read any details on what we offered)

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I don't know of any GM with an ounce of sense who would have given a 32-year-old Albert Pujols a ten-year backloaded contract. 

The Marlins offered more

[floplag]

15 minutes ago, Lou said:

but you're saying we're have to overpay if we want top free agents, so who should we have signed and for how much money and how many years?

no, thats not what i said at all, and im not wasting time trying to justify whatever you thought i said.  

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

We dont know that, maybe they would have.  Doesnt matter at this point its conjecture either way. .
Dont get me wrong as i said i wouldnt have liked spending that much on him, thats not the point. The point is only that im not giving a ton of credit for simply having conversations, nothing more or less.  
However, i suspect were going to overspend on whoever we end up getting at this point, assuming we end up getting any of them. 

so you wouldn't have spent what the yankees spent to get happ yet you'd have felt better if we offered the same amount and didn't get him.  but if we did get him, you wouldn't have liked it, but you don't like that we offered less and didn't get him.  

so based on your last sentence, would you like that or not like that?  how much credit would he get?  

[Lou]

33 minutes ago, floplag said:

no, thats not what i said at all, and im not wasting time trying to justify whatever you thought i said.  

you said that free agents are overpaid relative to their merit. if this is true, then we'll never sign one unless we are willing to overpay. 

so which free agents, and under what terms, do you suggest we should have signed?

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

you said that free agents overpaid relative to their merit. if this is true, then we'll never sign one unless we are willing to overpay. 

so, which free agents, and under which terms, do you suggest we should have signed?

the key is not to sign any.  just to offer them what they get from some other team.  then you get credit and you don't overpay.  

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the key is not to sign any.  just to offer them what they get from some other team.  then you get credit and you don't overpay.  

[WeatherWonk]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

still wrong. 

Like it or not, Arte is running a business. If what you claim is true, then you can't ever complain about a player's salary. 

Yeah, well, FED  F U C K I N   EX IS A BUSINESS, and it's been about as interesting to watch, with respect to making the playoffs.

If I wanted to watch a visual business, it wouldnt be the Angels. Even your dreaded A's are more interesting. At half the carrying charges.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Yeah, well, FED  F U C K I N   EX IS A BUSINESS, and it's been about as interesting to watch, with respect to making the playoffs.

If I wanted to watch a visual business, it wouldnt be the Angels. Even your dreaded A's are more interesting.

Then go watch the fucking A’s.

[WeatherWonk]

Just now, Stradling said:

Then go watch the Facking A’s.

Dont think I havent. If you are a fan of good baseball, it hasnt been happening here, for the last three years. And I am a fan of good baseball. Not just good players. It's a team sport, more than most.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Dont think I havent. If you are a fan of good baseball, it hasnt been happening here, for the last three years. And I am a fan of good baseball. Not just good players. It's a team sport, more than most.

Yes, and nothing keeps you here watching the Angels.  I’m sure tarpy would welcome you with open arms.  

[Lou]

I love it when grown men lose their minds on a message board 

 

"... and for some horrible reason which I can’t explain, that brings me joy"

- Daniel Tosh 

 

[WeatherWonk]

Just now, Stradling said:

Yes, and nothing keeps you here watching the Angels.  I’m sure tarpy would welcome you with open arms.  

Roots run deep. Mine are probably deeper than yours, with respect to baseball AND the Angels. It's not easy giving up on them, despite an owner who has turned miserly, while making MILLIONS EACH YEAR. In a market this lucrative, we should have more wins than teams from OAK or TBR or BAL.

I get that you still tow the party line. This site is the only game in town, with respect to a message board for the Angels. Fletch posts here. Links to the LA Times are regular here. 

Some of us are more objective, than former party members ...........

We're here, we veer, get used to it!!!!

[Lou]

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, WeatherWonk said:

Roots run deep. Mine are probably deeper than yours, with respect to baseball AND the Angels. It's not easy giving up on them, despite an owner who has turned miserly, while making MILLIONS EACH YEAR. In a market this lucrative, we should have more wins than teams from OAK or TBR or BAL.

I get that you still tow the party line. This site is the only game in town, with respect to a message board for the Angels. Fletch posts here. Links to the LA Times are regular here. 

Some of us are more objective, than former party members ...........

We're here, we veer, get used to it!!!!

Dude, I couldn’t care less if you veer.  My point is, if your “favorite” team causes you memory, and you are capable of changing teams then do it.  I believe you are ridiculous for thinking he has turned miserly and you’d prefer to A’s of all teams.  That is possibly the most asinine lack of logic this board has seen since bonuses aren’t part of payroll.