Why the Angels won't sign Yasmani Grandal

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

What am I missing on Hedges?  Seems his prospect reputation is much better than his actual production so far.

Offensively yes. He has some glimpses of brilliance but offensively hasn't put it together yet. But there isn't a faster, stronger, more athletic catcher in baseball. His arm makes good arms behind the plate look like limp noodles. 

The final product is an amazing defensive catcher and poor, yet potentially good offensive catcher.

[WeatherWonk]

23 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Who says they need to trade? If they want Hedges or Realmuto then yeah....but Lucroy or Maldonado, probably won't cost much. 

Not sure what Maldonado is asking, but the Astros reportedly moved on from him because he was asking too much. Years or dollars, who knows? So, they signed Chirinos.

[Second Base]

4 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Not sure what Maldonado is asking, but the Astros reportedly moved on from him because he was asking too much. Years or dollars, who knows? So, they signed Chirinos.

That's the funny thing about the market, guys can ask for whatever they want, but it ultimately comes down to a team's willingness to pay. Last year, not many free agents foresaw the market dropping out from under them and them being left taking a fraction of their asking price, but not until Spring Training rolled around, which took away from their prep time and ultimately led to some truly awful seasons. 

Maldonado was probably asking 3/24 or something like that. The Astros were probably thinking 1/5. I think a fair middle ground where Maldonado could expect to be paid and what teams can expect to pay Maldonado is probably 2/12.

[WeatherWonk]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

That's the funny thing about the market, guys can ask for whatever they want, but it ultimately comes down to a team's willingness to pay. Last year, not many free agents foresaw the market dropping out from under them and them being left taking a fraction of their asking price, but not until Spring Training rolled around, which took away from their prep time and ultimately led to some truly awful seasons. 

Maldonado was probably asking 3/24 or something like that. The Astros were probably thinking 1/5. I think a fair middle ground where Maldonado could expect to be paid and what teams can expect to pay Maldonado is probably 2/12.

And I would take it, at this point. 

Our choices are frittering away, at every turn.

OH, BUT IT'S ONLY DECEMBER 16TH !!!!! Yeah, tell that to the clubs that made the playoffs in the AL last year.

 

[Erstad Grit]

Greinke and ray.  This offseason looking like a big bust

[Dtwncbad]

With offensive question marks at 3B, 2B, RF and C. . . It made a ton of sense to bring some offense to the catcher position to reduce the risk at the other positions.

Now that Ramos is gone we are talking about grabbing Maldonado?  Defensively that is fine, but I hate it if it means the Angels will go into 2019 hoping what they have on the roster will be fine offensively at all the other positions mentioned.

[Halokingfish]

What about trading for Alex Avila? 347 career OBP, 995 career fielding percentage and 29 percent career caught stealing percentage. Makes 4.25 mil in final year with Arizona who appears to be rebuilding. Seems cheaper to trade for than the other names out there. Why overpay for Grandal who has a lower fielding %, lower obp and a lower CS%? The Angels should look into drafting a catcher early in the upcoming draft, because they have no catchers in the top 30 of their farm

[Lou]

saw him mentioned, so how good/bad is Cervelli? is he available?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

saw him mentioned, so how good/bad is Cervelli? is he available?

He was a 2.6 WAR last year with a .378 OBP last year.  Average defender.  He is expensive, $11 million I think.  

[Hubs]

Hedges would be ok, but only because he’s cheap and he’s got potential to be a good offensive catcher. But he’s unproven so I’m not sure.

The three acceptable choices in my humble opinion are:

Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now.

Grandal is the best free agent catcher in baseball.

Cervelli is a good defender and has a good offensive profile.

[Second Base]

21 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Hedges would be ok, but only because he’s cheap and he’s got potential to be a good offensive catcher. But he’s unproven so I’m not sure.

The three acceptable choices in my humble opinion are:

Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now.

Grandal is the best free agent catcher in baseball.

Cervelli is a good defender and has a good offensive profile.

Cervelli is a PED user, Grandal costs draft pick compensation (meaning a 2nd round pick, which means the next Griffin Canning, Brandon Marsh, Jahmai Jones, Jeremiah Jackson...) and Realmuto will cost Adell.

Again, hitting is such a minor part of what a catcher does. His greatest effect is on successfully managing a pitching staff and be an on field manager.

Because of the price, Realmuto, Grandal and Cervelli are essentially the equivalent of buying a POS car that doesn't run just because it's got some nice rims. It's fun and cool, but it isn't what makes the car road worthy. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Ramos has a career .317 OBP. Guessing that’s why the Angels didn’t get him. 

If you’re great defensively, that’s acceptable. But he’s not. 

[Fullmer17]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Ramos has a career .317 OBP. Guessing that’s why the Angels didn’t get him. 

If you’re great defensively, that’s acceptable. But he’s not. 

So we will add Martin Maldonado and his .276 obp or Lucroy and his .291 obp? 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Fullmer17 said:

So we will add Martin Maldonado and his .276 obp or Lucroy and his .291 obp? 

Well if we did we would be getting superior defense and paying half the price for those catchers.  

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Ramos has a career .317 OBP. Guessing that’s why the Angels didn’t get him. 

If you’re great defensively, that’s acceptable. But he’s not. 

.343 over the last 3 years with a 120 ops+.  

[Docwaukee]

btw, a .317 obp would be the 5th best on the team.  

[Fullmer17]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well if we did we would be getting superior defense and paying half the price for those catchers.  

That's great... Still would only have 4 hitters in the regular lineup that we can count on.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Cervelli is a PED user, Grandal costs draft pick compensation (meaning a 2nd round pick, which means the next Griffin Canning, Brandon Marsh, Jahmai Jones, Jeremiah Jackson...) and Realmuto will cost Adell.

Again, hitting is such a minor part of what a catcher does. His greatest effect is on successfully managing a pitching staff and be an on field manager.

Because of the price, Realmuto, Grandal and Cervelli are essentially the equivalent of buying a POS car that doesn't run just because it's got some nice rims. It's fun and cool, but it isn't what makes the car road worthy. 

You may not like Cervelli because he has had a PED suspension but that doesn’t mean the Angels don’t.

As the farm system rises, losing a 2nd round pick is not as much of a problem as it used to be. Also, while a lot of good prospects are 2nd round picks, they also have had a lot of bad picks in that slot in recent years. 

Hedges will cost at least an equivalent player but they wont pay him as much. He also won’t be as good as Grandal at least not in 2019 anyway. 

I don’t think they’ll be players for Realmuto because Adell is untouchable.

But the Marlins May find no one willing to trade what they are asking. 

[Hubs]

Cervelli I think makes the most sense of it’s a reasonable trade. It fits the Angels recent mold (Kinsler, Espinosa, Maybin, Upton, even Escobar).

[Docwaukee]

Grandal was suspended as well in 2012.  

[Second Base]

Have the Angels ever signed someone after a PED suspension?

[WeaverFever]

16 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Have the Angels ever signed someone after a PED suspension?

Cameron Maybin comes to mind. 

[GrittyVeterans]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Well if we did we would be getting superior defense and paying half the price for those catchers.  

The trouble is we have Fletcher,Cozart, Calhoun as regulars already right now. If you don’t get a catcher that can hit, you go into the season with potentially 4 below average hitters in your lineup. That is not ideal obviously. I love David Fletcher but on a contending ball club he’s the worst hitter among your starters and batting 9th every game

i know they’re probably expecting bounce backs from Kole and Cozart, but we need an insurance policy and Ramos could have been just that

[Stradling]

39 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

The trouble is we have Fletcher,Cozart, Calhoun as regulars already right now. If you don’t get a catcher that can hit, you go into the season with potentially 4 below average hitters in your lineup. That is not ideal obviously. I love David Fletcher but on a contending ball club he’s the worst hitter among your starters and batting 9th every game

i know they’re probably expecting bounce backs from Kole and Cozart, but we need an insurance policy and Ramos could have been just that

And we have zero idea how Fletcher progresses.  He may take another step or he could be absolute shit.  There are other bats available still in the market.  Moustakas and Brantley come to mind.  We could see them finally make a trade for a guy like Cesar Hernandez.  Quite a few things could still happen.  

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And we have zero idea how Fletcher progresses.  He may take another step or he could be absolute shit.  There are other bats available still in the market.  Moustakas and Brantley come to mind.  We could see them finally make a trade for a guy like Cesar Hernandez.  Quite a few things could still happen.  

If Arte came out and said they're saving their money for the future, would you be ok with selling off Calhoun and Cozart as salary dumps?  I know that doesn't address what you wrote, but just curious.  

I think I would.