Yelich deal. Missed Opportunity?

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Adding an mvp caliber player in yelich to trout ohtani Simmons and Upton brings you at least to competing to win the division right?

Not without pitching. Last season Yellich's MVP season would have amounted to the Angels being 3rd place in the AL West, which still doesn't put them in the playoffs. 

So, all the hand wringing aside and if you soberly realize the Angels couldn't put a package together that the Marlins would have taken in place of what they received, Yellich would not have changed the Angels trajectory regardless. 

This is just another Dtwncbad blue balls thread. He has been waiting to nut over some free agent or trade scenario but Eppler keeps denying him the pleasure. 

[Angelsfan1984]

Not drafting “insert all star name here” was a missed opportunity

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Not without pitching. Last season Yellich's MVP season would have amounted to the Angels being 3rd place in the AL West, which still doesn't put them in the playoffs. 

So, all the hand wringing aside and if you soberly realize the Angels couldn't put a package together that the Marlins would have taken in place of what they received, Yellich would not have changed the Angels trajectory regardless. 

This is just another Dtwncbad blue balls thread. He has been waiting to nut over some free agent or trade scenario but Eppler keeps denying him the pleasure. 

Predictable.  Ever individual transaction discussed always gets hit with the "this transaction would not get the Angels a ring" comment.

To pacify those that cannot participate in discussing an individual transaction in a normal context that assumes the Angels will not make only one transaction, let's say a couple things out loud.

The Angels will probably make more than one move.

A moves that improves the team over multiple years does not have to put the Angels in the playoffs in 2019 to be a good move.

 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Predictable.  Ever individual transaction discussed always gets hit with the "this transaction would not get the Angels a ring" comment.

To pacify those that cannot participate in discussing an individual transaction in a normal context that assumes the Angels will not make only one transaction, let's say a couple things out loud.

The Angels will probably make more than one move.

A moves that improves the team over multiple years does not have to put the Angels in the playoffs in 2019 to be a good move.

Angels have had several missed opportunities the last ten or so years...  It's easy to pick any one of them out and ask what if.... Not saying it's not worth discussing but I think its fair to say it took more than one mistake to get where they are.  All we can hope is that they have laid enough of a foundation the last three years to keep from missing on them moving forward.   It's been a bumpy road.

[Dtwncbad]

Regarding all the "Don't make that move because that won't catch Houston" types comments:

I disagree that you pay TOO MUCH attention to what all the other rosters in the division look like.  Houston looks great.  So what?

You still try to compete because you have no idea when that "unbeatable" roster has devastating injuries or somehow just doesn't click and they only win 86 games instead of 100.

[Docwaukee]

36 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Then why was he already getting MVP votes before he got traded?  He was already a Silver Slugger. . .

Here is what CBSSports said about him in reporting the trade at the time:

"Yelich, 26, hit .282/.369/.439 (117 OPS+) with 36 doubles, 18 homers, 81 RBI, 100 runs and 16 stolen bases last season. He was even better in 2016 when he won a Silver Slugger and got some down-ballot MVP love."

Are you telling me people would not view a 26 year old with those across the board impressive numbers as a potential MVP?  As I said, he was already getting votes on MVP ballots.

He finished 19th two years ago and then wasn't as good the following year where he got none.  

40 players get MVP votes every year.  There's a big difference between a 4-5 WAR player and a near 8 WAR player. 

Before he was traded, he was a really good star level player that would have been a nice upgrade over Kole at a cost of our 3 top prospects plus.   

So lets say we have Yelich and we wouldn't have Adell, Canning, Marsh/Jones and probably Suarez.  

Now what?  

[eligrba]

27 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

He finished 19th two years ago and then wasn't as good the following year where he got none.  

40 players get MVP votes every year.  There's a big difference between a 4-5 WAR player and a near 8 WAR player. 

Before he was traded, he was a really good star level player that would have been a nice upgrade over Kole at a cost of our 3 top prospects plus.   

So lets say we have Yelich and we wouldn't have Adell, Canning, Marsh/Jones and probably Suarez.  

Now what?  

[Jeff Fletcher]

2017, bWAR

Justin Upton 5.7

Kole Calhoun 2.1

Christian Yelich 3.9

Obviously, Upton and Calhoun were both older, but I don't think 12 months ago it looked like Yelich would be enough of an upgrade to be worth the prospect cost. I don't think anyone could have reasonably thought he'd be the MVP.

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

2017, bWAR

Justin Upton 5.7

Kole Calhoun 2.1

Christian Yelich 3.9

Obviously, Upton and Calhoun were both older, but I don't think 12 months ago it looked like Yelich would be enough of an upgrade to be worth the prospect cost. I don't think anyone could have reasonably thought he'd be the MVP.

Jeff, you should comment in the two birdies thread and make people cry.....

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

2017, bWAR

Justin Upton 5.7

Kole Calhoun 2.1

Christian Yelich 3.9

Obviously, Upton and Calhoun were both older, but I don't think 12 months ago it looked like Yelich would be enough of an upgrade to be worth the prospect cost. I don't think anyone could have reasonably thought he'd be the MVP.

Jeff, so after looking at his numbers as a 26 year old, you could not envision this guy being an MVP?  It is your opinion and your answer but that isn't something I would want to own.

Looked like a possible stud breakout to me.  Age 26?  Breakout at 27?

No, no even remotely far fetched.

[eligrba]

21 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Jeff, so after looking at his numbers as a 26 year old, you could not envision this guy being an MVP?  It is your opinion and your answer but that isn't something I would want to own.

Looked like a possible stud breakout to me.  Age 26?  Breakout at 27?

No, no even remotely far fetched.

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

no one anticipated Yelich progressing into an MVP.  It was likely that he'd be similar and probably a bit better.

::grits teeth, clenches armrests::

...sitting out this thread...

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Jeff, so after looking at his numbers as a 26 year old, you could not envision this guy being an MVP?  It is your opinion and your answer but that isn't something I would want to own.

Looked like a possible stud breakout to me.  Age 26?  Breakout at 27?

No, no even remotely far fetched.

Ok. Tell me who is going to be the MVP next year. 

[jessecrall]

Christian Yelich was seen as a "He'll be great if he starts to elevate more" guy. Same thing was said about Eric Hosmer. One had an MVP season, one was below average. Saying Yelich COULD turn into an MVP with a significant change to an approach that already made him a good major leaguer is not the same thing as trading away four talented prospects because you earnestly believe he WILL be the MVP next season. 

[Dtwncbad]

21 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Ok. Tell me who is going to be the MVP next year. 

Yelich.  Wow are you behind.

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yelich.  Wow are you behind.

In 2019?

ok

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

In 2019?

ok

Hard to envision?

[Blarg]

Lou has this thread bookmarked.

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Hard to envision?

It’s not hard to envision him being good again. It is hard to envision him winning the MVP. There’s only one MVP. 

[Dtwncbad]

Are we discussing whether or not Yelich was the kind of player that was worth pursuing (26 yr old 4WAR player with upside) or are we now trying to pretend any amount of any part of this has to do with predicting who will actually win the MVP?

This is the circus side show that far too often contaminates discussions on message boards.

 

[Stradling]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Are we discussing whether or not Yelich was the kind of player that was worth pursuing (26 yr old 4WAR player with upside) or are we now trying to pretend any amount of any part of this has to do with predicting who will actually win the MVP?

This is the circus side show that far too often contaminates discussions on message boards.

 

I’ll only pretend we didn’t have the package to send Miami that compared to what they got when they got it.  I’m not sure there’s a difference between pretending he wasn’t an MVP candidate or pretending it was a missed opportunity when we didn’t have a better offer.   

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’ll only pretend we didn’t have the package to send Miami that compared to what they got when they got it.  I’m not sure there’s a difference between pretending he wasn’t an MVP candidate or pretending it was a missed opportunity when we didn’t have a better offer.   

Except maybe you misunderstand what I said:

"If they Angels could get younger and better at the same time, that is when you have to consider parting with prospects you otherwise don't want to lose.  In a perfect world you can do something and hold on to an Adell, but realistically you may have to consider trading him if it was for the right player.

Forget for a second whether or not Adell was rated high enough last year.  Would it have been worth it to trade him to get Yelich? Tough to argue."

Is it not perfectly clear I am talking about whether or not the Angels should be open to moving prospects IF they can NOW acquire the right type of young stud player?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Except maybe you misunderstand what I said:

"If they Angels could get younger and better at the same time, that is when you have to consider parting with prospects you otherwise don't want to lose.  In a perfect world you can do something and hold on to an Adell, but realistically you may have to consider trading him if it was for the right player.

Forget for a second whether or not Adell was rated high enough last year.  Would it have been worth it to trade him to get Yelich? Tough to argue."

Is it not perfectly clear I am talking about whether or not the Angels should be open to moving prospects IF they can NOW acquire the right type of young stud player?

Ok.   Then the answer is no.  It is simply too hard to guess which one will be the next guy to take the giant step forward. 

[Dtwncbad]

14 hours ago, eligrba said:

I think you miss the point that the purpose of the discussion is to try to learn from hindsight.

[Docwaukee]

43 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think you miss the point that the purpose of the discussion is to try to learn from hindsight.

so you've learned to predict the future?  

let's use the Simmons example because we did exactly what you are talking about.  We gave up prospects for a good young player that actually got better.  

was that a smart move?  where were the corresponding other moves to complement that?  

You are sticking with your fictitious scenario and trying to force others to stick to your fictitious scenario yet if someone doesn't, you are telling people they don't get it.  

Because you think it seemed so obvious that Yelich was going to turn into an 8 WAR player in 2018, please make a list of the players available in trade that are going break out and put up 8 WAR seasons in 2019.  

Are you asking whether the Angels should consider trading for young star players with a ton of club control?  Of course.  And we have no idea if Billy made a solid offer for Yelich.  At the end of the day, it's not his choice.  The other team has to accept it.  

saying we should trade for X player because he's available and then make 'corresponding moves' is a fart in a stiff wind.  There are 29 other teams that wish they could have traded for Yelich.  Just like there are 23 other teams that wish they could have drafted Mike Trout.