Going WAY out on the Limb

[Blarg]

13 hours ago, instant karma said:

Billy Eppler is as smooth as a velvet glove when delivering the "don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out" message.  He essentially fired Mike Butcher and all Mike said when leaving was how smart and wonderful Billy E was.  Billy was able to end Mike Scoscia's tenure as smoothly. 

Butcher played out his contract. Scioscia played out his entire 10 year contract. That is no precedent to say Pujols will opt out of his early. 

The only way Pujols hobbles away from the game early is taking a medical exemption like Fielder and get paid while not suiting up. Six surgeries and a torn plantar fascia in seven years could be reason enough to say he is no longer physically able to play major league baseball. 

[eligrba]

54 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Butcher played out his contract. Scioscia played out his entire 10 year contract. That is no precedent to say Pujols will opt out of his early. 

The only way Pujols hobbles away from the game early is taking a medical exemption like Fielder and get paid while not suiting up. Six surgeries and a torn plantar fascia in seven years could be reason enough to say he is no longer physically able to play major league baseball. 

.....or based on performance.

[Lou]

this thread . . . 

 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Butcher played out his contract. Scioscia played out his entire 10 year contract. That is no precedent to say Pujols will opt out of his early. 

The only way Pujols hobbles away from the game early is taking a medical exemption like Fielder and get paid while not suiting up. Six surgeries and a torn plantar fascia in seven years could be reason enough to say he is no longer physically able to play major league baseball. 

None of the guys you mentioned above had hall of fame resumes, Pujols does.  The major reason i think he steps down early is to protect that legacy.  For example i dont think he wants to let his career avg drop below 300 which could happen this year if hes terrible enough though more likely next.
Thats a factor for a select few players to protect that legacy.  most guys will sit there and do nothing and get paid.  
Unless they can come up with some medical exception that gets the club out from under it and move it to insurance or something, there isnt any way he plays out three more years to me .
I could be completely off base, but i think his legacy matter more to him than most. 

[Blarg]

His legacy? Maybe you think that .300 number means more than $87 million, it doesn't. He's going into the Hall of Fame, no question. None. Whether it's with a career .300 or .295 batting average he's first ballot in. And he's headed there right now 6th highest home run totals.

Barry Bonds ended his career with a .295 average, so did Alex Rodriguez. And both played out their contracts and didn't give a shit about a career .300 average. In fact Rodriguez came back after being suspend, to a team that really didn't want him back, to chase down and pass Mays then was released by the Yankees that paid him his last two years of salary. He didn't quit to save his .300 batting legacy.  

If he keeps playing he might catch Mays. That puts him 5th all time between two great players and two infamous steroid users. And getting $87 million to do it. That is probably more incentive than his career batting average. 

[ettin]

14 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

You’re underselling it. 

OP:

Retiring, he’d lose *a lot* of money. Why would Pujols do that? Pujols still thinks he is good.

Eppler can say or think what he wants. Unless he arranges a buy out, Pujols will start the season at 1B. A phantom DL stint is the more likely approach.

(Also, Eppler didn’t fire Butcher.)

But that is why Eppler is so SMOOTH!

[Hubs]

The Angels did eat the 2nd most money on an existing deal when they traded Josh Hamilton, but I doubt they eat 87 M plus. I do think this may be Pujols’s last year but he will still get the $59 M he’s owed after this year. 

I think he could hit to a .750 OPS in 120 games if he was given days off and matchups were done to his advantage. 

Last year he struggled against lefties but that’s not always been the case. I hope they bring in a 1B/OF option.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Totally off topic. But lets say pujols announced "all my money going forward goes to charity". Would that change how you feel? 

No right or wrong answer. Just wondering.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

Unless they can come up with some medical exception that gets the club out from under it and move it to insurance or something, there isnt any way he plays out three more years to me .

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Angels are one of the teams that doesn't insure contracts.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Totally off topic. But lets say pujols announced "all my money going forward goes to charity". Would that change how you feel? 

No right or wrong answer. Just wondering.

My reaction would be, "Albert, I just started this new charity. $30 million would come in really handy to help us get started."

[Stradling]

Just saw this picture of Albert on FB from yesterday, 

 

[bruin5]

16 hours ago, Stradling said:

He kinda fired Butcher.  There was zero chance he was being retained and it had nothing to do with his ability to be a pitching coach. 

I believe that Butcher being gone was a decision Arte made.  Butcher was the guy that was arguing with Dipoto on that infamous day.  Butcher was lucky he got to complete the season because he should have been fired right after DiPoto quit.  Scosicia’s issue was that he backed Butcher.  At least that was what I was told happened.... 

[beatlesrule]

11 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yes, that is logical, he probably should have faked an injury in year one of the contract so he could have spent all ten years with them on Arte’s dime.  

Yes because 10 years is the same as 3.

7 hours ago, JarsOfClay said:

Or he would have stayed in St Louis instead of forcing his entire family to go to Anaheim for a whopping 10 million more dollars.

The guy is pure greed. Family is a distant second. He's not retiring. Period.

The Cardinals offered him $210 million.

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

To be clear, Pujols isn't going to leave a dime on the table.  Not a single red cent.  

The best case scenario for this team right now is that he announces that 2019 will be his last year and he essentially goes on a farewell tour.  Arte and co. would work out some sort of deal to pay him what he's owed plus interest and future value should that occur.  We would still take the CBT for the next three years as per the rules governing that, but the Halos would free up a ton of money in actual payroll for 2020 and 2021.  

In no way shape or form will this be forced.  They might have a conversation about reduced PT but that's the most of what will happen.  

More likely that this occurs before the 2020 season if it's going to where he foregoes the final year of his deal.  Again, his remaining money gets deferred.  

My top odds are still on him playing out his entire contract though.  

Exactly my thoughts too, the remaining $59 million after 2019 will be Bonilla’d to free up actual space (not AAV space) for 2020-2021, to help in re-signing Trout and Simba.

He has to deep down understand how deteriorating his skills are.   If he played in 2020, he may be as bad of a hitter as Mays was for the Mets in 1973.

[stormngt]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:00 PM, instant karma said:

Dear Fellow Angel Supporters,

As many of you, I am not blessed with inside information.  That said, I have a prediction (which I will probably receive much deserved criticism and ridicule for):  Albert Pujols will announce his retirement prior to the start of the season.

My reasons (in no particular priority order):

1) Billy Eppler is as smooth as a velvet glove when delivering the "don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out" message.  He essentially fired Mike Butcher and all Mike said when leaving was how smart and wonderful Billy E was.   Billy was able to end Mike Scoscia's tenure as smoothly. 

I think Billy will have a clandestine meeting with Albert this off season.  At this meeting, Billy will let Albert know approximately how many at bats he might expect to get this year.  It won't be many, if any, at the DH position.  And I think, because the priority ts to field a team that is playoff worthy,  in an effort to keep Trout, Bill will let Albert know the best offensive player will get most of starts this year, whether that's him, Matt Thaiss or someone else.  I think Albert's pride will kick in and he will choose to retire.

 

2) Billy will coordinate some sort of Albert Pujols appreciation /retirement event that will feed Albert's ego.

 

3) On some level, Albert has to see the oddity of his pursuing the Willie Mays model (playing too many years), versus what Adrian Beltre and David Ortiz did--retiring before they started to lose their skills.

4) The Angels want to have as much payroll flexibility to improve their team this year.  If they can't convince Trout to sign an extension this year, they would be fools not to trade him before he gets to his final year.  The Angels would get far more assets selling two years of Trout versus one year.  If that's true, this is the year they need to add talent to push this team into the playoff picture.  

That's what I think.  I know watching the MLB network everyone believes Albert will be at first base to start the season.  I just don't see how they can expect to motivate Trout to stay while at the same time keeping an over the hill, mediocre hitting, double play "machine" at a corner infield position. 

I know I am gonna get hammered, but I love you all.  Go Angels.

 

First he did not fire Scioscia.  Scioscia contract expired.   There is a difference.  Especially you are making a comparison with Albert whose contract expired.

Second, Pujols will not retire before the season.  If there is a talk with Eppler any agreement would be retirement after 2000 RBIs.

[Blarg]

Storm, you should read a thread that is two days old before jumping on the OP topic and see if this has been covered.

It's been covered. 

[Tank]

4 hours ago, stormngt said:

Second, Pujols will not retire before the season.  If there is a talk with Eppler any agreement would be retirement after 3000 RBIs.

Boy oh boy I hope that's a typo.

[jessecrall]

I'd rank the likelihood of various scenarios in this fashion:

65% shot the Angels release Pujols at some point in 2019 or 2020 and just eat the rest of his contract

20% shot the Angels work out a deal at some point over the next year in which Pujols retires "voluntarily" but the Angels either defer some money or agree to pay him, say, 90% of what he's owed (he won't leave $87 million on the table but he might leave $8 million or take it over a longer period of time to avoid 3 more years of struggling through pain)

14% shot Pujols plays out the rest of his contract.

1% shot Pujols retires entirely on his own volition and leaves all that he's owed on the table. This number goes up the deeper he gets into his deal and/or the worse he plays.

 

[ettin]

19 minutes ago, stormngt said:

First he did not fire Scioscia.  Scioscia contract expired.   There is a difference.  Especially you are making a comparison with Albert whose contract expired.

Second, Pujols will not retire before the season.  If there is a talk with Eppler any agreement would be retirement after 3000 RBIs.

Well we would need to keep him for another 40 years for that to happen.

[JarsOfClay]

46 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

The Cardinals offered him $210 million.

It's estimated after CA taxes the difference was literally 10 stinking million.

Pure greed.

[Lou]

43 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

It's estimated after CA taxes the difference was literally 10 stinking million.

Pure greed.

or perhaps the fact that it's an insignificant amount (your viewpoint), shows that he had other reasons for wanting to come to Anaheim. 

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, Tank said:

Boy oh boy I hope that's a typo.

Yes it is.  Meant to say 2000 RBIs

[WeatherWonk]

If Albert is as proud as many of you make him out to be, then it is possible that he would be motivated to retire early to avoid the embarrassment of sitting on the bench so much, or looking absolutely abysmal at the plate. I dont know about an unconditional release. Wouldnt that open up the possibility of him re-signing for a limited farewell tour with the Cardinals? I dont think Arte would like that.

There is also the chance that he might feel some remorse at what a drain his salary is on the organization.

He certainly has enough money, at this point. AND he still has that personal services contract at the end of this one.

How would it feel to be part of an organization, for many years to come, that your contract rendered the organization unable to compete? Especially if it led to being a contributing factor in the Angels being unable to sign Trout to an extension? How would the Angel fan base view him in this light, when he continues in his personal services contract (which was expected to be a PR role, I assume)?

These could be motivations to call it quits, early. Three more bad years would be a lot for Angel fans to forget.

He is already past the point of retiring on his terms, while playing well. At least David Ortiz could say that, during his farewell tour.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

If Albert is as proud as many of you make him out to be, then it is possible that he would be motivated to retire early to avoid the embarrassment of sitting on the bench so much, or looking absolutely abysmal at the plate.

There is also the chance that he might feel some remorse at what a drain his salary is on the organization.

He certainly has enough money, at this point. AND he still has that personal services contract at the end of this one.

How would it feel to be part of an organization, for many years to come, that your contract rendered the organization unable to compete? Especially if it led to being a contributing factor in the Angels being unable to sign Trout to an extension? How would the Angel fan base view him in this light, when he continues in his personal services contract (which was expected to be a PR role, I assume)?

These could be motivations to call it quits, early. Three more bad years would be a lot for Angel fans to forget.

He is already past the point of retiring on his terms, while playing well. At least David Ortiz could say that, during his farewell tour.

While I agree his contract sucks at this point, the team can compete with that contract.   Lots of big market teams have bad contracts and compete.   This coming year they will probably still be $30 million under the tax.   Also it certainly isn’t Albert’s fault the team ignored the farm for years. 

[zenmaster]

I already ate one shoe when we signed Ohtani. I'll eat the other if this happens.