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I Wish Henry Samueli Owned the Angels


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1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

One last time. I don't know if you don't follow the Ducks closely or else you just are slow, but here it is: Eric Stephens has made clear on multiple occasions that Bob Murray had permission to spend up to the cap if necessary when they were in their window. I haven't checked the exact numbers, so I'll assume you're correct on that. Basically, this isn't a jigsaw puzzle where you can simply max out against the cap. It doesn't work that way.

Part of the spending involved was related to the trade deadline. In a couple of seasons, Murray balked at the prices in trades (he tends to be cheap on the trade market). One year, as another example, he tried to trade for Kesler but was unsuccessful at the deadline before finally trading for him in the off-season. Failed trades doesn't mean the pocketbook isn't open - that's what you're missing. 

Where you argued against yourself: You admitted that the payroll fluctuated - exactly what I said - which shows that they spent more when competitive, and less when they weren't. You also seem to miss the difference between a hard and a soft cap - generally speaking, you need to leave some wiggle room when you're up against a hard cap. Murray also was managing based on which young players required imminent extensions. 

The evidence is clear that Samueli opened the purse strings, you just miss it because it's not what you expect to see. If you account for multiple factors, though, the evidence is actually what you should expect to see.

Jesus what is wrong with you.  The numbers are what they are.  Obviously there has to be wiggle room.  Obviously they need to anticipate having to space necessary for upcoming contracts that need to be signed.  All teams do that.  We have a  difference in opinion on Samueli.  I’ve at no point seen anything from Stephens or anyone else that suggest that the “purse strings are open”.  What is known is that they work within an internal budget. If you think Murray is entirely responsible for every aspect of the teams failure to win a cup.  That’s fine, I’ve agreed to that mostly.  I’m just saying that the Samuelis are not an ownership that is particularly aggressive about winning championships.  And the existence of an internal cap in addition to the actual numbers that are public figures support that.  

They should have traded for Kesler at the deadline that year.  He may well have made the difference for the Ducks in that series against the Kings.  If you don’t think that ownership has input on those decisions, that’s opinion you’re entitled to. 

Have you considered that some of the trades they don’t make are a consequence of trying to work within Samueli’s budget ? So instead of pulling off a trade for Taylor Hall Murray does one of his dumpster dives. 

Edited by UndertheHalo
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10 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Jesus what is wrong with you.  The numbers are what they are.  Obviously there has to be wiggle room.  Obviously they need to anticipate having to space necessary for upcoming contracts that need to be signed.  All teams do that.  We have a  difference in opinion on Samueli.  I’ve at no point seen anything from Stephens or anyone else that suggest that the “purse strings are open”.  What is known is that they work within an internal budget. If you think Murray is entirely responsible for every aspect of the teams failure to win a cup.  That’s fine, I’ve agreed to that mostly.  I’m just saying that the Samuelis are not an ownership that is particularly aggressive about winning championships.  And the existence of an internal cap in addition to the actual numbers that are public figures support that.  

They should have traded for Kesler at the deadline that year.  He may well have made the difference for the Ducks in that series against the Kings.  If you don’t think that ownership has input on those decisions, that’s opinion you’re entitled to. 

The budget is sealed now, I'm sure. Murray's said multiple times in recent years that the team isn't good enough - that's why he didn't do anything last year at the trade deadline. The window is effectively shut. You obviously don't follow the Ducks closely; you shouldn't pretend you do. The Samueli's are willing to spend if the team is close. It isn't and only has been for 3-4 seasons. As to why they didn't spend to the cap? I explained in the previous post which you either didn't read or are too thick-headed to understand. I'm done trying to explain this.

They aren't really much different than Moreno: They'll spend if they're close, but they won't spend just to say "Look at me, I'm spending to the cap!". But they aren't hockey people. At all. They leave it all to Murray (for better or worse). They haven't spent to the max, necessarily, but that has to do with Murray being overly cautious. 

And just as a closing note: (From CJ Woodling - one of the editors of Anaheim Calling)

This is well known to anyone who actually follows the team.

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1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

The budget is sealed now, I'm sure. Murray's said multiple times in recent years that the team isn't good enough - that's why he didn't do anything last year at the trade deadline. The window is effectively shut. You obviously don't follow the Ducks closely; you shouldn't pretend you do. The Samueli's are willing to spend if the team is close. It isn't and only has been for 3-4 seasons. As to why they didn't spend to the cap? I explained in the previous post which you either didn't read or are too thick-headed to understand. I'm done trying to explain this.

They aren't really much different than Moreno: They'll spend if they're close, but they won't spend just to say "Look at me, I'm spending to the cap!". But they aren't hockey people. At all. They leave it all to Murray (for better or worse). They haven't spent to the max, necessarily, but that has to do with Murray being overly cautious. 

And just as a closing note: (From CJ Woodling - one of the editors of Anaheim Calling)

This is well known to anyone who actually follows the team.

The ad hominem is always evidence of a strong argument.  Which you’ve gone to now in every one or your posts in this conversation.  You have an opinion, that you’re trying to masquerade as fact.  Anaheim calling is barely more then a fan blog.  They don’t have any insider insight.  What does being Toronto have to do with anything ? You’re a cap team or you aren’t.   

Again, has it occurred to you that maybe they don’t make trades based on what the budget limitations may be ? Specifically. They don’t do significant rental players because the cost in young cost controlled assets or draft picks are a bigger issue for them then say.  Chicago.  Or LA or other “big market” clubs.  The Ducks have always cried poor.  That’s nothing new.  During the hold outs the samuelis were among the most aggressive of the owners pushing Bettman to play hardball with the players union.

You're taking what I’ve said and tried to make it into something else.  I’ve simply said that the Samueli’s aren’t that aggressive, and that maybe they deserve some culpability for the teams failures to win cups.  They’ve certainly never been as aggressive as Arte Moreno.  Duurrrr do you even follow the Angels?  If you disagree with that, well thats an opinion.  In the Samueli’s tenure they’ve made 3 serious acquisitions.  Niedermayer, a FA. Pronger, a trade and Kesler a trade who they then signed.  I’ll grant you that they’ve given contracts to their own players.  I’ve already discussed that I felt that Kesler should have been brought in in the spring before they ended up trading for him.  As you say, because they balked at the price then.  Well, part of the cost for that is that maybe we lost out on a cup. We’ll never know.  Anyway all that pales in comparison to what Moreno has done with the Angels.  IMO.  Have the last word if you wish.  

Edited by UndertheHalo
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