I hope the Angels go after Donaldson

[Lou]

iirc, his back was fine last year. he had shoulder and calf issues 

[T.G.]

I think the risk is too high for a guy who will be 33 by opening day.  He also missed significant time in 2017. He's just the kind of guy who ends up with a big contract that he can never live up to. He really is that classic example of the kind of guy teams take a chance on and then regret it later, IMO.

[Lou]

2 hours ago, True Grich said:

I think the risk is too high for a guy who will be 33 by opening day.  He also missed significant time in 2017. He's just the kind of guy who ends up with a big contract that he can never live up to. He really is that classic example of the kind of guy teams take a chance on and then regret it later, IMO.

perhaps, but from people what have stated here it would only be a 1 or 2-year deal. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:21 AM, UndertheHalo said:

He would be blocking Ward.  Like I said, for me it’s about finding value.  I’d like to see if we can pay a guy league minimum to be an everyday player.  Identifying areas where the Angels can get this is what’s going to genuinely move the needle for the team.   Ward, looked decent to me last season.  He had some nice AB’s.  He made hard contact.  I think there’s a decent chance that he comes into spring having learned something and ready to contribute at the major league level.  If he’s not, well.  We’ve got Cozart.  

Donaldson bothers me less if it’s just a 1 year deal.  But I really think he’s going get 3 years from someone.  I don’t see why the Angels should absorb that risk with an older player who has had back issues.  The back is not a good problem area. 

I just don’t think he’s the right type of move for a team trying to build into a contender.  He doesn’t really change the mid to long term outlook.  The resources should be invested elsewhere in players that do make a difference in a couple of years. 

If you are planning on counting on a guy like Ward to produce then you should be expecting to lose. 

[Broad Street]

I would offer him a 1+1 with a higher AAV than teams giving him a 3-4 year deal and hope he takes it. His upside is 10 times that if Ward's right now, who would benefit going back to AAA to work on some things. If we're not in contention we could flip him for prospects at the deadline pretty easily.

[UndertheHalo]

46 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If you are planning on counting on a guy like Ward to produce then you should be expecting to lose. 

I’m not counting on him.  I want to see if he’s a viable everyday player.  The Angels can’t sign FA for every position. I know., that you know this. 

Until the Angels break out of this trap of requiring external players to fill half or more of the line up card the team isn’t going to do shit.  We’ll keep paying big money to vets who are as likely to be terrible as they are to being decent and dumpster dives like Matt Joyce.  Ward is as good a ready to go prospect as the Angels have right now.  

I see people talk about Ian Kinsler like he was some great success.  It’s nice that we were able to flip him for a couple reliever prospects.  Buttery looked solid.  Let’s remember.  Most prospect rating have them in the 20 range for us.  Again, it’s fine that we got them.  Buttery I do believe has upside.  But Kinsler didn’t work.  He was terrible for 2 months which contributed to costing us a shit load of games and we were out of it by the ASB.  Kinsler was a waste of time.  You guys talk about wanting to win now.  We need to stop wasting time (with Trout Simmons) with players who don’t work. If Ward can give us something near league average production that’s an incredible win for the team.  Those resources can be directed somewhere.else.  Now maybe we’ve filled 2 holes and the team is that much better.  

Put the money into longer term solutions or into a place where the Angels have less hope of having an internal replacement.  This is why they’re looking at pitchers and catchers.  To a lesser extent I think 1B is also a bigger issue.  

Ward may well fail to be an adequate big leaguer at this point.  But we have cozart to slot in there and Fletcher already demonstrated that he might be adequate to be counted on at 2B.  Plus we’ve got Rengifo who may be about as good a prospect as Ward.  There is some measure of depth at these positions.  There’s none at others. 

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

perhaps, but from people what have stated here it would only be a 1 or 2-year deal. 

I know the popular thought is that he will sign a one or two year deal - but I think it's more likely he'll seek and get a longer deal. 

[GrittyVeterans]

I think he will get a 3 year deal as well. I see no reason why he can't get 3/50 if he wants it. And that's a big commitment to an old player. 2/35 I would do.

[T.G.]

I also think the focus should be on someone who can hit at the top of the lineup and not necessarily in the middle of it.

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I also think the focus should be on someone who can hit at the top of the lineup and not necessarily in the middle of it.

This is a great point that isn’t discussed enough.  The Angels don’t really have a clear lead off hitter.  Calhoun is a disaster in that spot. Fletcher doesn’t seem to get on base enough.  At least thus far.  I think Simmons is a good guy for this but apparently he doesn’t like it. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not counting on him.  I want to see if he’s a viable everyday player.  The Angels can’t sign FA for every position. I know., that you know this. 

Until the Angels break out of this trap of requiring external players to fill half or more of the line up card the team isn’t going to do shit.  We’ll keep paying big money to vets who are as likely to be terrible as they are to being decent and dumpster dives like Matt Joyce.  Ward is as good a ready to go prospect as the Angels have right now.  

I see people talk about Ian Kinsler like he was some great success.  It’s nice that we were able to flip him for a couple reliever prospects.  Buttery looked solid.  Let’s remember.  Most prospect rating have them in the 20 range for us.  Again, it’s fine that we got them.  Buttery I do believe has upside.  But Kinsler didn’t work.  He was terrible for 2 months which contributed to costing us a shit load of games and we were out of it by the ASB.  Kinsler was a waste of time.  You guys talk about wanting to win now.  We need to stop wasting time (with Trout Simmons) with players who don’t work. If Ward can give us something near league average production that’s an incredible win for the team.  Those resources can be directed somewhere.else.  Now maybe we’ve filled 2 holes and the team is that much better.  

Put the money into longer term solutions or into a place where the Angels have less hope of having an internal replacement.  This is why they’re looking at pitchers and catchers.  To a lesser extent I think 1B is also a bigger issue.  

Ward may well fail to be an adequate big leaguer at this point.  But we have cozart to slot in there and Fletcher already demonstrated that he might be adequate to be counted on at 2B.  Plus we’ve got Rengifo who may be about as good a prospect as Ward.  There is some measure of depth at these positions.  There’s none at others. 

I don't think we are going to agree on much. We were able to flip Kinsler for a decent return from Boston after he gave us better than 2 wins of production. Moving him allowed us to give Fletcher an every day look when we were out of the race putting this name into the discussion for 2019. In no way would it have been a better move to give Fletcher the job in the offseason. 

Ward is not ready, it would be foolish to throw him into the fire and count on him to produce. You can write off the 2019 season if you want but there is no way I am. This team is a few breaks away from a wild card spot, we shouldn't be having open try outs at the major league level. If you pencil in Ward at third base to start the season and he falls on his face, which is what we should expect, then that probably sinks the 2019 season.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't think we are going to agree on much. We were able to flip Kinsler for a decent return from Boston after he gave us better than 2 wins of production. Moving him allowed us to give Fletcher an every day look when we were out of the race putting this name into the discussion for 2019. In no way would it have been a better move to give Fletcher the job in the offseason. 

Ward is not ready, it would be foolish to throw him into the fire and count on him to produce. You can write off the 2019 season if you want but there is no way I am. This team is a few breaks away from a wild card spot, we shouldn't be having open try outs at the major league level. If you pencil in Ward at third base to start the season and he falls on his face, which is what we should expect, then that probably sinks the 2019 season.

Kinsler was a terrible offensive player last year.  His value with WAR is almost entirely derived from his defensive play.  

I just don’t think Donaldson makes that big of a difference.  I think with some luck health wise the Angels are in the mix anyway.  I think it’s very unlikely that he mashes like some of you guys are saying.  We can be more impactful with other moves.  Anyway, we don’t have to agree on it ! We’ll see what Eppler does.  

I’ll say one other thing tho, I’m not sure when you might think Ward will be ready.  He doesn’t have much more to prove in the minors with the bat.  Seems to me that we either give him a shot or we don’t and move on.  If they sign someone to play 3B, really they might as well trade him. 

[Stradling]

Kinsler has a .710 OPS as an Angel. That’s far from terrible for a 2nd baseman.  

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Kinsler has a .710 OPS as an Angel. That’s far from terrible for a 2nd baseman.  

I honestly can’t believe it was that high.  Fangraphs has his wRC+ At 87 which is not good at all, as you know.  His OBP was like .300.  Also terrible. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[GrittyVeterans]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I honestly can’t believe it was that high.  Fangraphs has his wRC+ At 87 which is not good at all, as you know.  His OBP was like .300.  Also terrible. 

He was an average player if you combine his below avg bat with his above avg defense. I don't think anyone thinks he was "good". Although I can't speak for anyone else.

I think what you're underselling a bit is that he did have value at the deadline to a contender. The Red Sox gave us a pitcher that very well could be our future closer and Jerez who has some upside but needs refining obviously. And Kinsler was 36 years old. We gave up zero real assets to acquire him (honestly, I don't even know who we traded for him but I believe they performed terrible in the Tigers org this past season IIRC).

I think if you sign Donaldson to a 2 year deal, and it doesn't fully work out, you can always move him for a decent prospect. Barring a massive injury (which is also possible and if that's your argument for not signing him I totally get that)

I think the fact of the matter is veteran players that are average will always have value to a contender at the deadline. There is always a team out there in July that is stacked but could use an insurance policy at 3B. 

[UndertheHalo]

31 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

He was an average player if you combine his below avg bat with his above avg defense. I don't think anyone thinks he was "good". Although I can't speak for anyone else.

I think what you're underselling a bit is that he did have value at the deadline to a contender. The Red Sox gave us a pitcher that very well could be our future closer and Jerez who has some upside but needs refining obviously. And Kinsler was 36 years old. We gave up zero real assets to acquire him (honestly, I don't even know who we traded for him but I believe they performed terrible in the Tigers org this past season IIRC).

I think if you sign Donaldson to a 2 year deal, and it doesn't fully work out, you can always move him for a decent prospect. Barring a massive injury (which is also possible and if that's your argument for not signing him I totally get that)

I think the fact of the matter is veteran players that are average will always have value to a contender at the deadline. There is always a team out there in July that is stacked but could use an insurance policy at 3B. 

The injury thing is a big part of my opposition. But not the only aspect of it.  I’ve said before if it’s a one year deal, fine.  I’d still rather the Angels pass. 

I think assuming that he can just be traded is a risky game. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Lou]

Donaldson was good after returning from a 3.5 month injury stint. 

.280 BA

.400/.520/.920

[Docwaukee]

I think the thing that turns people off about Ward and why we lack confidence in him being legit is the fact that this year was such an aberration relative to his prior seasons.  Of course there are potential explanations for that, but it's still hard to buy in at this point.  

There's a very slim chance we sign Donaldson even though I think we should as I'd rather have Ward be the backup should Donaldson get injured.  If Josh is healthy, I think he'll do very well but that's certainly a big risk.  One that I think this team needs in order to be truly competitive and vie for a wild card spot.  

It likely wouldn't have made a huge difference to this point in Eppler's tenure, but he hasn't exactly made an efficient use of spending money yet.  

[arch stanton]

I really like the idea of Donaldson playing for a contract and hitting behind Trout and Ohtani thus sliding Upton back to the 5 spot where I think he'd be much more comfortable

[Broad Street]

It still leaves us without a leadoff hitter, but what about plugging Trout back into the leadoff spot?

Trout

Ohtani

Donaldson 

Upton

[arch stanton]

If Trout leads off that's 150ish PAs where it's a guarantee there's nobody is on base. Bat him second and it's 40 to 60 more PAs with a runner on

Edited November 13, 2018 by arch stanton

[beatlesrule]

[tdawg87]

Season over.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Far too much money to pay - and by a team that supposedly already had a third baseman.

Josh Donaldson agrees to $23 million deal with Atlanta Braves

[beatlesrule]

3 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Far too much money to pay - and by a team that supposedly already had a third baseman.

Josh Donaldson agrees to $23 million deal with Atlanta Braves

Aside from last year, he's worth every penny. Actually more according to WAR.