I hope the Angels go after Donaldson

[halonatic13]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Guy is practically guaranteed to come to the Angels with his fuc*ked back and bat like .230 with 15 homers.  This kind of shit is written in the stars for the Angels.  How many times do we need to see it happen ? They have a cheap decent prospect that they can and should give a shot.  Crazy.  

That was with the old manager era!  This is a new beginning!  No more TJ or stupid injuries!!!

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, halonatic13 said:

That was with the old manager era!  This is a new beginning!  No more TJ or stupid injuries!!!

I agree Scioscia is the reason all our pitchers needed TJ surgery.  That’s why these injuries started right when he became manager in 2014.  

[Troll Daddy]

9 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Guy is practically guaranteed to come to the Angels with his fuc*ked back and bat like .230 with 15 homers.  This kind of shit is written in the stars for the Angels.  How many times do we need to see it happen ? They have a cheap decent prospect that they can and should give a shot.  Crazy.  

[UndertheHalo]

20 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Well, she’s considerably cuter then all the dudes here will be if for the 8000th time the Angels bring on some beat up old vet to be absolute ass. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well, she’s considerably cuter then all the dudes here will be if for the 8000th time the Angels bring on some beat up old vet to be absolute ass. 

Or you look at how good he’s been every year except this year where he was hurt.  Then you make the short term value play, and hope he bounces back.  It’s the same as assuming every pitcher we sign needs TJ surgery or every prospect is Brandon Wood.   It’s an old tired extremely repetitive narrative among guys on here.  

[UndertheHalo]

The Angels are in a place where they need to be getting younger and they need to be figuring out what young players realistically can be looked to for everyday AB’s.  They aren’t realistically in the mix for a pennant, so they can allow these types of players to be comfortable and figure it out.  They need to identify places where they’re getting a lot of value for production.  You’re paying top dollar for Donaldson, for no reason.  That money needs to be invested in players that might be here when the team has a chance to actually compete.  Even if Donaldson happens to not be a disaster.  So what ? Why should they burn half or more of the supposed money they have to spend this offseason giving Josh Donaldson a retirement deal.  The Angels need to do better then this.  They need to find value. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

I’d much, much rather see the Angels give Ward, Fletcher, Rengifo, the AB’s.  If they can’t get ahold of a more desirable longer term FA this offseason and the team is actually competing they’ll have money to trade for a useful player from a team trying to dump salary.  Probably one much better then Donaldson.  

Edited November 11, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Stradling]

Ok what if he turns into a better version of Ian Kinsler.  Where he reverts back and has trade value where you pick up more future pieces.  He isn’t blocking anyone on a one year deal.  I guess he could be blocking Ward, but I’m not entirely sold on him.  

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’d much, much rather see the Angels give Ward, Fletcher, Rengifo, the AB’s.  If they can’t get ahold of a more desirable longer term FA this offseason and the team is actually competing they’ll have money to trade for a useful player from a team trying to dump salary.  Probably one much better then Donaldson.  

Donaldson has one down year, prior to that he was a 4.5 to 7.4 win player for five straight years.   If you think they’ll be a better player available ok, but doubtful.  

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok what if he turns into a better version of Ian Kinsler.  Where he reverts back and has trade value where you pick up more future pieces.  He isn’t blocking anyone on a one year deal.  I guess he could be blocking Ward, but I’m not entirely sold on him.  

He would be blocking Ward.  Like I said, for me it’s about finding value.  I’d like to see if we can pay a guy league minimum to be an everyday player.  Identifying areas where the Angels can get this is what’s going to genuinely move the needle for the team.   Ward, looked decent to me last season.  He had some nice AB’s.  He made hard contact.  I think there’s a decent chance that he comes into spring having learned something and ready to contribute at the major league level.  If he’s not, well.  We’ve got Cozart.  

Donaldson bothers me less if it’s just a 1 year deal.  But I really think he’s going get 3 years from someone.  I don’t see why the Angels should absorb that risk with an older player who has had back issues.  The back is not a good problem area. 

I just don’t think he’s the right type of move for a team trying to build into a contender.  He doesn’t really change the mid to long term outlook.  The resources should be invested elsewhere in players that do make a difference in a couple of years. 

[UndertheHalo]

And I mean, maybe they can get a guy like Whit Merrifield.  The Royals fuc*king suck.  They’re going to end up trading him.  

[eligrba]

16 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Guy is practically guaranteed to come to the Angels with his fuc*ked back and bat like .230 with 15 homers.  This kind of shit is written in the stars for the Angels.  How many times do we need to see it happen ? They have a cheap decent prospect that they can and should give a shot.  Crazy.  

Yep.

7 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

The Angels are in a place where they need to be getting younger and they need to be figuring out what young players realistically can be looked to for everyday AB’s.  They aren’t realistically in the mix for a pennant, so they can allow these types of players to be comfortable and figure it out.  They need to identify places where they’re getting a lot of value for production.  You’re paying top dollar for Donaldson, for no reason.  That money needs to be invested in players that might be here when the team has a chance to actually compete.  Even if Donaldson happens to not be a disaster.  So what ? Why should they burn half or more of the supposed money they have to spend this offseason giving Josh Donaldson a retirement deal.  The Angels need to do better then this.  They need to find value. 

Yep.

7 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’d much, much rather see the Angels give Ward, Fletcher, Rengifo, the AB’s.  If they can’t get ahold of a more desirable longer term FA this offseason and the team is actually competing they’ll have money to trade for a useful player from a team trying to dump salary.  Probably one much better then Donaldson.  

Yep.

[eligrba]

7 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

She is ambidextrous!!!

[floplag]

Im surprised at some of this really, if were playing for 21, how does this help?  Wouldnt it be smarter get some someone younger that might still be here when we plan to compete?
im for it as part of an overall plan to do something other than play 500 ball and milk the mike Trout train, but his projection are higher than this thread seems to suggest at 2-3 between 18 and 22 per.   2/30 would be nice, but seems low.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im surprised at some of this really, if were playing for 21, how does this help?  Wouldnt it be smarter get some someone younger that might still be here when we plan to compete?
im for it as part of an overall plan to do something other than play 500 ball and milk the mike Trout train, but his projection are higher than this thread seems to suggest at 2-3 between 18 and 22 per.   2/30 would be nice, but seems low.

We aren’t throwing away 2019 despite how many times you want to say it.  We just have on pretty good authority that the team has a budget.  I personally want them to sign players that help them compete now, while not hurting the future.  I am more in favor of spending money over prospects.  I wouldn’t trade 2-4 prospects in our top ten for a player that is only controllable for two years, so because of that I don’t really want to entertain Realmuto, Bryant, Kluber because all of them will cost us a huge part of our future.  We could squabble over which of those top ten guys it would cost us, but it is pretty easy to assume Adell or Canning would have to be included because those are great players.  I would want Donaldson for a year or two over just about any other offensive signing.  He is much better than Moustakas and he has a higher ceiling than Murphy.  As for getting someone younger who would compete in 2021, how many younger talented 3rd baseman are free agents this year?  I don’t want to sign a guy like Machado if it hurts the chances of signing Trout.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Donaldson signs a one year deal to re-establish his value, but of course I could be wrong.  

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

We aren’t throwing away 2019 despite how many times you want to say it.  We just have on pretty good authority that the team has a budget.  I personally want them to sign players that help them compete now, while not hurting the future.  I am more in favor of spending money over prospects.  I wouldn’t trade 2-4 prospects in our top ten for a player that is only controllable for two years, so because of that I don’t really want to entertain Realmuto, Bryant, Kluber because all of them will cost us a huge part of our future.  We could squabble over which of those top ten guys it would cost us, but it is pretty easy to assume Adell or Canning would have to be included because those are great players.  I would want Donaldson for a year or two over just about any other offensive signing.  He is much better than Moustakas and he has a higher ceiling than Murphy.  As for getting someone younger who would compete in 2021, how many younger talented 3rd baseman are free agents this year?  I don’t want to sign a guy like Machado if it hurts the chances of signing Trout.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Donaldson signs a one year deal to re-establish his value, but of course I could be wrong.  

He doesnt fit in your budget.  You spend 15 on him you have 15 left for 2 pitchers, math doesnt add up.  You blow the budget on him and he doesnt come back to form, youve made it even worse.  
Precisely my point in other discussions, and why i suggested other moves and got told i was wrong so... meh, unless the budget grows, we can afford him, all youre getting is youre 2 pitchers and a journeyman catcher. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

He doesnt fit in your budget.  You spend 15 on him you have 15 left for 2 pitchers, math doesnt add up.  You blow the budget on him and he doesnt come back to form, youve made it even worse.  
Precisely my point in other discussions, and why i suggested other moves and got told i was wrong so... meh, unless the budget grows, we can afford him, all youre getting is youre 2 pitchers and a journeyman catcher. 

It isn’t my budget flop.  Regardless we are getting a journeyman catcher.  

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It isn’t my budget flop.  Regardless we are getting a journeyman catcher.  

A budget that has nothing to do with luxury tax, i wonder can we even agree on that?

[greginpsca]

Players with back injuries rarely get back to 100%, unless the injury is muscle related. From what I understand, Donaldson’s injury was not muscle related. Anyone who has had something like a disc problem can tell you how debilitating it is. Save the money and move on. We don’t have any room on our DL.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

A budget that has nothing to do with luxury tax, i wonder can we even agree on that?

Yes, because it has nothing to do with the tax.  

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Yes, because it has nothing to do with the tax.  

OK, progress.     
Do you understand this is the crux of my frustration? 

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

OK, progress.     
Do you understand this is the crux of my frustration? 

Do you understand you argue on here with people that have no control over the fact that there is a budget?  And then you get mad at us for having a realistic expectation of when we will be able to compete at the highest level based on the fact that there is a budget?  

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

Do you understand you argue on here with people that have no control over the fact that there is a budget?  And then you get mad at us for having a realistic expectation of when we will be able to compete at the highest level based on the fact that there is a budget?  

I argue over being told im wrong in my opinion in trades or signings, i never argued the budget. 
 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Im surprised at some of this really, if were playing for 21, how does this help?  Wouldnt it be smarter get some someone younger that might still be here when we plan to compete?
im for it as part of an overall plan to do something other than play 500 ball and milk the mike Trout train, but his projection are higher than this thread seems to suggest at 2-3 between 18 and 22 per.   2/30 would be nice, but seems low.

Let me be clear.  I think building from within is the best way to create a winner with a fairly long window of success.  I've seen other teams do this time and time again and it works.  I've seen the halos do it and it was the best time in franchise history.  

There is no arbitrary date in which that window opens up.  I am completely guessing that it will be in 2021.  I certainly don't think it's going to be 2019.  Could we get a glimpse of it this year and next?  sure.  Could it take till 2022 or even 2023 or even not happen at all?  sure.  

My thought process of wanting to build from within isn't dependent on whether Trout signs an extension.  The idea that we could open a window for contention very soon is very much so.  

So there's this vague period of time where I don't think the team or farm are good enough to justify obtaining players that cost significant prospect capital.  I don't know when that's gonna end.  

The most important job of any GM is to not be a fan.  They need to stick to their process and determine what is best for the overall health of the franchise while gauging where the entire system is from top to bottom at any given point.   Without emotion.  

As a fan, it's really difficult to maintain that line of thinking.  But if I am trying to think like that, I can look at our current roster and see a lot of holes.  I can look at our farm system and see promise but an unfinished product.  

So how do I get this franchise where I think it needs to be?  

1.  I get Trout locked up long term.  
2.  I don't trade any prospects who I think can bring value to the major league club for an extended period at a minimal acquisition cost.  I don't trade anyone who I realistically feel has yet to reach their max value on said trade market relative to where they are now.  As an example, if I feel like Brandon Marsh is going to break out in 2019 and substantially increase his value, I am keeping him.  Conversely, if I feel like Matt Thaiss isn't far from his ceiling and I don't see him adding a ton of value to the major league club beyond what I can get on the cheap, then I'd consider moving him.  
3. I am looking to add value to this franchise at the least possible cost.  Value comes in many forms and so does cost.  Getting more out of a free agent than expected adds value.  Grabbing a guy like Felix Pena adds value.  Winning adds value.  Realmuto adds value.  But what is the cost.  ie, what are the risks?    

So in terms of Josh Donaldson, I see a tremendous opportunity to add value as long as the cost is reasonable.  Would I sign him for 3 years?  Hell no.  Best of luck to whoever does.  But if I can get him at 1+1 for about 15-16m per, I think that's worth the risk.  Worst case is that you get nothing for that money.  He hits .230 with a .700 ops.  Next is that he's hurt a fair amount and you can still flip him for a low level prospect or two because he's Josh Donaldson. But if he does well, he's tradeable for significant prospects or he transforms your lineup.  You talked about Eppler being more bold.  Well, at the right price, Donaldson is the one guy that can make a huge difference.  

[halonatic13]

2 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Players with back injuries rarely get back to 100%, unless the injury is muscle related. From what I understand, Donaldson’s injury was not muscle related. Anyone who has had something like a disc problem can tell you how debilitating it is. Save the money and move on. We don’t have any room on our DL.

Yea, if it's a disc issue...PASS!  Trust me, you do not want someone like me out there with herniated discs!!!  I'll be sitting more than Pujols!