California Burning...again

[Homebrewer]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

one of my friends was lamenting about how fires have become so much bigger and common than when we were kids. it's a fair question to ask and needs to be answered honestly. 

i still think one of the larger elements of all of this is the number of arsonists who really get off on watching it all burn. if you think about it, most of these fires start on either the hottest day of the year or during the windiest day of the year. that's too much coincidence. another friend of mine works for LA county fire and he said there's a very strong correlation to this theory.

heard an interesting fact about the paradise fire. at one point, it was moving 100 yards in 1 second (not a typo). have to think gas lines played a part in that kind of insane speed.

Here ya go tankster..They already know they will be on the hook for billions in the Napa fire last year..

Investors flee as PG&E faces scrutiny over cause of Camp Fire

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article221535305.html

 

[Tank]

boy is that going to be expensive.

still 200 missing in Paradise. unfathomable.

[Homebrewer]

Much hotter summers, much less rain ( climate change isn't a myth) coupled with a much larger population. (more idiots and bigger bureaucracies )I've been posting fire related stuff here for years, mostly in the WTF is with this Weather thread.

People laughed when I said I moved to Oregon because of the fire situation in Cal..I wasn't joking. I love California and I loved where I lived just outside Yosemite. If not for the fire threat er.. reality, I would have grown old and died there. 

More probably get it now.  

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

Afghanistan or Otay Mesa? 

It already looked like Otay Mesa.

[arch stanton]

One of our instructors grew up in that area and said all the ranchers and farmers took turns doing controlled burns on their property and all the neighbors helped out. But these days you can't even cut down a tree without a permit and the undergrowth just accumulates until it becomes a real hazard

[Homebrewer]

43 minutes ago, Tank said:

boy is that going to be expensive.

still 200 missing in Paradise. unfathomable.

That's the thing...how do you put a value on a life, much less 2 or 3 hundred of them? AND all the families, like yours and Nate's that are forever changed,  some devastated..

 

[Redondo]

 

Active wildfires from the deadly Camp Fire in northern California are visible in this shortwave infrared view from DigitalGlobe's WorldView-3 satellite taken on Nov. 9, 2018.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 hours ago, Tank said:

one of my friends was lamenting about how fires have become so much bigger and common than when we were kids. it's a fair question to ask and needs to be answered honestly. 

i still think one of the larger elements of all of this is the number of arsonists who really get off on watching it all burn. if you think about it, most of these fires start on either the hottest day of the year or during the windiest day of the year. that's too much coincidence. another friend of mine works for LA county fire and he said there's a very strong correlation to this theory.

heard an interesting fact about the paradise fire. at one point, it was moving 100 yards in 1 second (not a typo). have to think gas lines played a part in that kind of insane speed.

Ive always been blown away by that as well, the speed which they move. Id like to know how the measure that. I assume its not so much everything in the 100 yards ignites at once, but more the fire is jumping (which later everything inside ignites).

Its really about wind and terrain. When its windy, those embers are blowing everywhere, and you basically have a chimney flue. Couple that with hilly areas, and you have heat rising, drafts that blow through the canyons, etc etc.

I think a big reality is most of this stuff is supposed to burn every so often, but now we build homes in these places.

Remember the oakland hills fire in 91? Check out this video. The winds are really evident about 1:40...and check out the firefighter getting his helmet knocked off, pressurized water coming right back at him...

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Also Tank, having worked a few of these fires, I can say that really the only thing that stops them is air strikes. (Back burns when the wind dies down, but ive seen those backfire as well, no pun intended).

But when the winds are blowing they cant use the helicopters, and most of the planes get grounded, too.

Ill say this for the cal fire pilots....those guys are freakin badasses. My buddy and i were in awe of them on a recent fire. Reminded me of CAS in the military (same concepts). My buddy wrote them a letter, saying "i was ANGLICO in the Marines, you guys did crazier shit than any F-18 guy we ever called in".

CalFire offered to take him on a tour, ride along maybe when fire season dies down....so never.

 

[gotbeer]

12 hours ago, arch stanton said:

One of our instructors grew up in that area and said all the ranchers and farmers took turns doing controlled burns on their property and all the neighbors helped out. But these days you can't even cut down a tree without a permit and the undergrowth just accumulates until it becomes a real hazard

Yes.  I was at a claim a river down from Paradise on the Yuba a few weeks ago.   Any tree over 4 inches, you have to get permission/permits from the forestry service to cut down.  You can't even do any maintenance on the claim without approval from the forestry service.  You also can't have a campfire on your claim.  All these things would help reduce the fire danger, yet the forestry is in bed with the environmentalists, and everything is forbidden.

[Angel Oracle]

15 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Yes.  I was at a claim a river down from Paradise on the Yuba a few weeks ago.   Any tree over 4 inches, you have to get permission/permits from the forestry service to cut down.  You can't even do any maintenance on the claim without approval from the forestry service.  You also can't have a campfire on your claim.  All these things would help reduce the fire danger, yet the forestry is in bed with the environmentalists, and everything is forbidden.

Even though quite a few trees are needing to be taken down due to the drought and the bark beetles  

[fan_since79]

13 hours ago, Homebrewer said:

Here ya go tankster..They already know they will be on the hook for billions in the Napa fire last year..

Investors flee as PG&E faces scrutiny over cause of Camp Fire

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article221535305.html

 

...and according to new state laws the utility customers will be on the hook for the monetary damages the company might suffer in the lawsuits. The law is designed to protect the utilities from bankruptcy.

 

[Homebrewer]

23 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Yes.  I was at a claim a river down from Paradise on the Yuba a few weeks ago.   Any tree over 4 inches, you have to get permission/permits from the forestry service to cut down.  You can't even do any maintenance on the claim without approval from the forestry service.  You also can't have a campfire on your claim.  All these things would help reduce the fire danger, yet the forestry is in bed with the environmentalists, and everything is forbidden.

All due respect but how would being allowed to have campfires reduce the fire danger? Campfires are banned in all of California's National forests, even in designated campgrounds with fire rings, for most of the year now.  I'm sure you can understand why that might be. Mining claims are on federal, public lands. Many are along rivers and streams. Can you imagine what would happen if they allowed claim holders to just do whatever they wanted?

[Homebrewer]

13 hours ago, arch stanton said:

One of our instructors grew up in that area and said all the ranchers and farmers took turns doing controlled burns on their property and all the neighbors helped out. But these days you can't even cut down a tree without a permit and the undergrowth just accumulates until it becomes a real hazard

Generations ago when there were large ranches...yes this was true. For one thing, back in those days, IT RAINED . These days, however, those large ranches, for the most part have been sold off and developed, and are now 10-20-40 acre parcels at best. Housing developments at worst. Controlled burns on private land is no longer feasible by any stretch of anyone's imagination. The forest service and park service does conduct controlled burns all the time, and while those help, a few have escaped "control" and have turned into disasters...escaping into residential areas.  Anyone thinking that the bark beetle-dead tree epidemic is an easy fix has no comprehension how many MILLIONS of dead trees are in the forests of California..millions and millions for miles and miles...in inaccessible areas on steep mountains with no roads.. that wont ever be logged because they cant be. 

And needing permits to cut trees or clear brush on your property is just plain not the case.  I had 10 acres outside Yosemite and cut tress and cleared brush every year, and helped my neighbors do the same. and so does everyone else, including ranchers..NEVER needing a permit. Someone is feeding you MAGA narrative bullshit. 

[Tank]

39 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

...and according to new state laws the utility customers will be on the hook for the monetary damages the company might suffer in the lawsuits. The law is designed to protect the utilities from bankruptcy.

that's just unacceptable.

[Homebrewer]

I'm not posting this shit just to sound like some know it all when it comes to fires.

I've spent most of the last decade sitting on councils and in workshops dealing with it. I dealt with fire safety and policy nearly every freaking day, whether it be in meetings about the private and public lands philosophy,  or in the very real practice of keeping my property and my neighbors properties, in the safest condition that we could possibly keep it.

Fact is that people in fire areas spend half the year working their asses off to mitigate the danger on their land, and the other half worrying when and where the fire is coming from. Everyone listens to scanners and the sound of a helo sends adrenaline through your brain. 

It's crazy. I just got too damn old to work all winter at it, and spend all summer worrying about it, and unfortunately dealing with it when it happened, and it was happening every freakin year.

[gotbeer]

No health risk from Woolsey fire that burned nuclear cleanup site, state officials say

How is that even possible to have no health risk after a nuclear cleanup site burns up?  Were these same officials and experts the same one's that said there was nothing wrong with Porter Ranch gas leak?

[gotbeer]

Also, in reference to the above article.  Did anyone know anything about this?

Quote

But those assurances have not tempered concerns by watchdog groups and environmentalists, who worry the blaze spread radioactive material, carcinogens and other contaminants present at the site from decades of rocket-engine testing, toxic chemical spills and a partial nuclear meltdown in 1959.

 

 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, gotbeer said:

Also, in reference to the above article.  Did anyone know anything about this?

i'm sure anaheim bob can give us the 4-1-1 on who's to blame for the meltdown.

and no, i hadn't heard about it.

[Tank]

my cousin's husband posted this picture from the Camp Fire:

[Homebrewer]

 

Amazing picture. Scary stuff. 

Ever seen motorcycles melted into unrecognizable puddles, engine and all?  I have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fan_since79]

PG&E filed an "electric incident report" regarding the moments before the northern Calif. fire and the company's shares fell 21% today. Their equipment may have started the fire that destroyed the town of Paradise. The company says their potential liabilities will exceed their insurance coverage.

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

PG&E filed an "electric incident report" regarding the moments before the northern Calif. fire and the company's shares fell 21% today. Their equipment may have started the fire that destroyed the town of Paradise. The company says their potential liabilities will exceed their insurance coverage.

PG & E, go pound sand, you poor excuse for a power company!

[ten ocho recon scout]

From what I read, paradise was mostly a town of elderly people....which might explain why so many are missing...which is sad as hell.

[Lou]

On November 13, 2018 at 3:01 PM, gotbeer said:

No health risk from Woolsey fire that burned nuclear cleanup site, state officials say

How is that even possible to have no health risk after a nuclear cleanup site burns up?  Were these same officials and experts the same one's that said there was nothing wrong with Porter Ranch gas leak?

no