Sonny Gray Opinion

[Torridd]

I just read in the NY Post this quote from Cashman, "We are going to move him if we get the right deal because I don't think it's going to work out in the Bronx..."

This seemed pretty harsh to me and belittling. I just want to know if anyone else has a take on this. I've never heard Gray say anything bad about the Yankees.

 

[Torridd]

Sorry, I guess this should have gone into the non-Angels section.

[Second Base]

I don't think it was belittling, but it was more honest and forthcoming than most comments that GM's will make to the media.  It's sort of stating the obvious though, I think everyone and their mother knew that the Yanks would try to trade Sonny Gray this offseason, whether their GM says so or not. 

[arch stanton]

It could mean he doesn’t think his stuff and pitching style fit well in the ALEast or maybe he doesn’t feel comfortable in New York. Not every fit is right 

[TroutField]

I’m not sure why Cashman would say something like that, it just seems like it would lower the cost to trade for him 

[Jeff Fletcher]

He’s actually not belittling him. He’s pumping up his physical tools. By suggesting that Gray’s problems were solely related to the strain of New York, he’s trying to drum up interest from other teams. I saw another quote where he said “whoever gets him will he getting the Oakland version.”

[ettin]

7 hours ago, Torridd said:

I just read in the NY Post this quote from Cashman, "We are going to move him if we get the right deal because I don't think it's going to work out in the Bronx..."

This seemed pretty harsh to me and belittling. I just want to know i anyone else has a take on this. I've never heard Gray say anything bad about the Yankees.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s actually not belittling him. He’s pumping up his physical tools. By suggesting that Gray’s problems were solely related to the strain of New York, he’s trying to drum up interest from other teams. I saw another quote where he said “whoever gets him will he getting the Oakland version.”

I don't know Jeff, the quote in the OP sounds a lot like there was some issue that Cashman believes is interfering with Gray's success in NY. If he is the Oakland version why are they trading him?

[Pancake Bear]

6 minutes ago, ettin said:

 

I don't know Jeff, the quote in the OP sounds a lot like there was some issue that Cashman believes is interfering with Gray's success in NY. If he is the Oakland version why are they trading him?

Haven’t you heard? It’s really hard to pitch on the big stage. It’s why Ohtani signed with the Angels and chickened out of starting games in NY. At least, so pretentious Yankees fans tell me. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

32 minutes ago, ettin said:

 

I don't know Jeff, the quote in the OP sounds a lot like there was some issue that Cashman believes is interfering with Gray's success in NY. If he is the Oakland version why are they trading him?

Because he’s not the Oakland version in NY. But he’ll be the Oakland version out of NY. That’s the point Cashman is trying to make. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s actually not belittling him. He’s pumping up his physical tools. By suggesting that Gray’s problems were solely related to the strain of New York, he’s trying to drum up interest from other teams. I saw another quote where he said “whoever gets him will he getting the Oakland version.”

When the Yankees didn't? I believe that some clubs will see this a a ruse.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Because he’s not the Oakland version in NY. But he’ll be the Oakland version out of NY. That’s the point Cashman is trying to make. 

it was stated poorly 

[Torridd]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s actually not belittling him. He’s pumping up his physical tools. By suggesting that Gray’s problems were solely related to the strain of New York, he’s trying to drum up interest from other teams. I saw another quote where he said “whoever gets him will he getting the Oakland version.”

It sounds bad to me, Jeff. Talent generally wins out no matter where you are. Does this mean he can't handle Boston either? I think it would have been best to keep his mouth shut and just trade him. Let the other GMs make their own opinions.

[Torridd]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s actually not belittling him. He’s pumping up his physical tools. By suggesting that Gray’s problems were solely related to the strain of New York, he’s trying to drum up interest from other teams. I saw another quote where he said “whoever gets him will he getting the Oakland version.”

And what if this is just an issue with someone trying too hard? It may have nothing to do with NY, just someone acclimating to a new environment.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

If this is what he’s telling the other GMs privately, by going public all he’s doing is saving himself some time. Other GMs have to make the same decision on whether to believe him if they read it or hear it from his mouth.

So really the only issue is whether Sonny Gray’s feelings are hurt. Since I’m guessing Cashman told him the same thing first, I’m sure he’s OK.

[Torridd]

49 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If this is what he’s telling the other GMs privately, by going public all he’s doing is saving himself some time. Other GMs have to make the same decision on whether to believe him if they read it or hear it from his mouth.

So really the only issue is whether Sonny Gray’s feelings are hurt. Since I’m guessing Cashman told him the same thing first, I’m sure he’s OK.

Talking to Gray privately and spreading it to the media, especially if it's true, are two separate things. I just can't see anything positive in reporting it.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, Torridd said:

Talking to Gray privately and spreading it to the media, especially if it's true, are two separate things. I just can't see anything positive in reporting it.

When another GM talks privately to Cashman, what should Cashman say?

-We just have too much pitching.

-We can’t afford his $9M salary.

-We are trying not to be good so we don’t want him. 

-He’s a bad pitcher. 

-He’s hurt. 

The first three are obviously not true and the last two obviously hurt Gray’s value even more. 

Seems to me the only thing he can say that’s both believable and has a chance to help his value is: “He can still be good, but not for us.”

You don’t have to believe it, and some GMs won’t. But I don’t see any better alternative narrative for Cashman to push.

And if he’s willing to say it to any other GM privately, he should be able to say it publicly. 

[Dtwncbad]

I don't hate Sonny Gray but if the Angels are going to acquire a front line starter, I would hope it might be someone I could feel comfortable handing the ball to in a playoff game in NY or Boston.

Given the now standard storyline that he sucks pitching in the AL East parks, he isn't my first choice.

How would the move feel if Gray won 14 or 15 games, the Angels made the playoffs and then he got predictably completely shelled in NY or Boston in an elimination game?

How about just pursue somebody else that doesn't have this (either real or not real) handicap?

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don't hate Sonny Gray but if the Angels are going to acquire a front line starter, I would hope it might be someone I could feel comfortable handing the ball to in a playoff game in NY or Boston.

Given the now standard storyline that he sucks pitching in the AL East parks, he isn't my first choice.

How would the move feel if Gray won 14 or 15 games, the Angels made the playoffs and then he got predictably completely shelled in NY or Boston in an elimination game?

How about just pursue somebody else that doesn't have this (either real or not real) handicap?

Or you grab Gray and if the season is going well you trade for the best starter available at the deadline.  Then you have two pitchers down the stretch to get you there.  When you are talking about going up against the Yankees and Red Sox in an elimination game, it really isn’t like Corbin and Keuchel are shut down guys either.  

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Or you grab Gray and if the season is going well you trade for the best starter available at the deadline.  Then you have two pitchers down the stretch to get you there.  When you are talking about going up against the Yankees and Red Sox in an elimination game, it really isn’t like Corbin and Keuchel are shut down guys.

 So trade prospect capital to get Gray and then admit he wasn't the right target by having to trade additional prospect capital to solve the deficiency of getting Gray at the deadline?

[Stradling]

38 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

 So trade prospect capital to get Gray and then admit he wasn't the right target by having to trade additional prospect capital to solve the deficiency of getting Gray at the deadline?

No.  Because you aren’t trading for Gray to be the ace of the staff.  You are adding another arm to the rotational mix.  Gray isn’t going to cost much in the way of prospects either.  Plus before you trade at the deadline you’ll have another draft under your belt.  

[Angel Oracle]

What's strange is that he didn't give up that many HRs in 2018 (14 in 130 innings), despite pitching well over half of his games in AL East parks.

The main thing was hits allowed increasing by quite a bit over 2017.

[Dtwncbad]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No.  Because you aren’t trading for Gray to be the ace of the staff.  You are adding another arm to the rotational mix.  Gray isn’t going to cost much in the way of prospects either.  Plus before you trade at the deadline you’ll have another draft under your belt.  

I am just bantering.  I can see a way that acquiring Gray could be helpful, but it just seems like there are better strategies, like pursuing a legitimate front line starter.

It would be like saying trade some prospects for a catcher and then if things go OK make another trade to get Realmuto at the trade deadline.

Just go get the premium player in the first place.

[Docwaukee]

still think that with starters up to the 2/3 range we'll see a very aggressive approach.  If teams can't get the upper end guys, they will supplement their bullpens instead.  Consequently, the guys in the 3/4 range and below are going to sit around awhile and they'll be some deals.   Gray is in the 3/4 category right now.  Cashman can say all he wants, but his performance was his performance and whether he's got AL east anxiety or not isn't my problem.  Not gonna pay to find out if his struggles were between his ears.  Someone else might, but most GM's aren't stupid.  He's got 1yr left and is gonna get about 9m after struggling last year.  That'll get you Brennon Lund or worse as far as I'm concerned.  Otherwise, I'll take my chances on Lance Lynn or Matt Harvey or even Clay Buchholz.  

[Stradling]

27 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am just bantering.  I can see a way that acquiring Gray could be helpful, but it just seems like there are better strategies, like pursuing a legitimate front line starter.

It would be like saying trade some prospects for a catcher and then if things go OK make another trade to get Realmuto at the trade deadline.

Just go get the premium player in the first place.

It isn’t like that at all.  A team doesn’t need two good catchers, catchers are readily available on the free agent market.  A team could easily upgrade with multiple starting pitchers.  

[Lou]

31 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It would be like saying trade some prospects for a catcher and then if things go OK make another trade to get Realmuto at the trade deadline.

except that a team doesn't need 5 starting catchers