Death Penalty

[RallyMo]

13 hours ago, Lou said:

true, but two Wrights made an airplane 

 

 

 

 

 

I still got it !

I came into this thread to state that I'm very much against the death penalty. 

After reading this post, I've reconsidered. 

Start making a list for your last meal, @Lou.

Terrible. 

 

[floplag]

15 hours ago, Rico said:

The emotional side of me thinks some of these fuckers absolutely deserve it.  Just pull the trigger and lets go home. 

The rationale side of me...

1. Doesn't trust that the justice system will not execute an innocent person. 

2. Don't think as a society we should sanction murder for murder. Two wrongs don't make a right.

3. Feels that a lifetime in prison is punishment enough for even the worst of crimes. 

i hear the 2 wrongs dont make a right comment a lot, but the thing about that is that depends on whether or not you consider the death of the criminal to be murder, and thus wrong.  I would argue it is justice, and justice is never a wrong.   Its all a matter of perspective. 

[Lou]

47 minutes ago, RallyMo said:

I came into this thread to state that I'm very much against the death penalty. 

After reading this post, I've reconsidered. 

Start making a list for your last meal, @Lou.

Terrible. 

 

INO fries 

tbc

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

INO fries 

tbc

Dead to me.  

[Rico]

5 hours ago, floplag said:

i hear the 2 wrongs dont make a right comment a lot, but the thing about that is that depends on whether or not you consider the death of the criminal to be murder, and thus wrong.  I would argue it is justice, and justice is never a wrong.   Its all a matter of perspective. 

See #3.  Is it necessary to end someone's life for justice to be served?  Can't you just lock them up and throw away the key?  I would argue that the death penalty is less about seeking justice and more about revenge.  

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

See #3.  Is it necessary to end someone's life for justice to be served?  Can't you just lock them up and throw away the key?  I would argue that the death penalty is less about seeking justice and more about revenge.  

You could argue that, and im sure in some cases its accurate to some people, but i dont see it that way.
Can you just throw away the key, sure, but who does that benefit? 
Youre feeding into for profit prisons.
Its another violent person in prisons making them an even worse hell than they already can be.
Youre wasting tax money that could be far better used in other places.
You remove the highest leverage from law enforcement to get information and closure for victims
You take away the one fear and real deterrent these people possibly have to prevent them from doing these things
At the end of it all, aside from the pro-life position, who benefits?

[Mark68]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:40 PM, calscuf said:

I don’t see why this is a problem.  We have plenty of poor people.  There’s enough to spare.

The Purge: Calscuf Edition

[Jason]

http://time.com/5445753/california-death-row-inmates-suicide/

I think we all can agree that this is probably the best route to take on the subject

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 11/2/2018 at 6:10 PM, Rico said:

The emotional side of me thinks some of these fuckers absolutely deserve it.  Just pull the trigger and lets go home. 

The rationale side of me...

1. Doesn't trust that the justice system will not execute an innocent person. 

2. Don't think as a society we should sanction murder for murder. Two wrongs don't make a right.

3. Feels that a lifetime in prison is punishment enough for even the worst of crimes. 

I am opposed to the death penalty. Point #2 above is part of it (killing someone to show people that killing is wrong seems counterintuitive).  Point #1 is another issue. Many people have complained about the amount of time that it takes to carry out an execution. Part of the reason is the finality of the punishment. You can't go back and release someone who has been executed if evidence later surfaces showing that the person was innocent. Having worked in prisons for many years, #3 would certainly be enough for me. Even the newer prisons are austere places with a lot of sameness and routine. I have been inside facilities that were built over 100 years ago and some that had been open for less than a year. The common denominator is the lack of freedom. Another factor is cost. Given the cost of going through the myriad of appeals that naturally come with death penalty cases, it would cost less to incarcerate someone for the rest of that person's natural life than to pay for the legal expenses necessary in taking a death penalty case through to its conclusion. Some states have seen these cases drag out for 20 years or more, meaning that they are essentially doing this anyway while simultaneously picking up the tab for court costs.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:48 PM, fan_since79 said:

There are some men on California's death row that have been there since 1980. That's 38 years.

Lawrence Bittaker, who tortured and killed five teenaged girls, has been there for more than 37 years.

Ricky Rene Sanders, who herded customers and employees of a Bob's Big Boy in L.A. into a walk-in refrigerator and opened fire on them with a shotgun, killing four and severely injuring several others, has been there since 1982.

 

Good call. Bittaker is the absolute poster boy for why the death penalty should exist.

If anyone isnt familiar, give him a google. Not sure if ive ever heard of a worse animal...

 

[Jason]

On 11/6/2018 at 8:37 PM, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I am opposed to the death penalty. Point #2 above is part of it (killing someone to show people that killing is wrong seems counterintuitive).  Point #1 is another issue. Many people have complained about the amount of time that it takes to carry out an execution. Part of the reason is the finality of the punishment. You can't go back and release someone who has been executed if evidence later surfaces showing that the person was innocent. Having worked in prisons for many years, #3 would certainly be enough for me. Even the newer prisons are austere places with a lot of sameness and routine. I have been inside facilities that were built over 100 years ago and some that had been open for less than a year. The common denominator is the lack of freedom. Another factor is cost. Given the cost of going through the myriad of appeals that naturally come with death penalty cases, it would cost less to incarcerate someone for the rest of that person's natural life than to pay for the legal expenses necessary in taking a death penalty case through to its conclusion. Some states have seen these cases drag out for 20 years or more, meaning that they are essentially doing this anyway while simultaneously picking up the tab for court costs.

All valid points. The only point of the death penalty is to satisfy our human desire for retribution. The only positive is if it gives any comfort to victim's families. 

[Jason]

25 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Good call. Bittaker is the absolute poster boy for why the death penalty should exist.

If anyone isnt familiar, give him a google. Not sure if ive ever heard of a worse animal...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Bittaker_and_Roy_Norris

Whoa!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Reading some of the comments about the people against it, I get it. And I respect anyones opinion on most issues, if its well thought out. Sometimes a good debate will change my views, for example.

In terms of the death penalty, I think what some people dont get, is that you have to really do something "special" to rate "special circumstances" in your judgement. Hardly any murderer actually gets the death penalty. There are people who have killed, done their time, got out and killed again, just went back for more time. So there has to be more to it.

As mentioned above, bittaker...he and his partner kidnapped, raped and murdered several young women...the youngest i believe was about 13 years old. That wasnt enough....they made tapes of themselves, raping and torturing these girls for several hours...while mutilating them with plyers. Tearing pieces of them off, and laughing at their screams. Bittaker later become a celebrity to the sick...signs autographs with a nickname he gave himself..never showed any remorse.

Best yet, he and guys like him are always in protective custody. 

Yeah, sorry. Either kill that F*cker or throw him in gen pop.

There was an infamous murder back in the 90s (to mention 1). Gang homicides dont ever really make the news in such a way that the general public notices....whereas some of you mentioned rich vs poor, this goes for the victims as well.

The mexican mafia has a lifetime membership. You dont get to leave.

2 drop outs were spotted by a current member. He gave orders to a young mafioso to take care of it...young mafioso gives orders to a few 20 something year olds to get rid of these rankers, and dont leave any witnesses.

So these guys go to this shitty home in el monte, killed the two ex "brothers". They then kill the entire family....including a 7 month old baby, which they shot in back of the head. (Killed a 7 year old as well). Booking photo for the gangster who pulled the trigger, hes smiling. (He didnt get PC. Mafia killed him first week in the pen...they said because he went overboard, but it was more that the killings brought a lot of unwanted attention to the organization).

The mastermind of it is in PC. Protected from the other people like him.

You have gangsters who kill. Again, they get caught and do their time. Theres thousands of these guys in california alone. Comes with the territory.

Then there are the ones who stand out. One of the more recent is a guy named Timothy McGhee. Heres a guy convicted of like 13 homicides, over several years. One of his victims was a random college kid, painting on a canvas in broad daylight. McGhee decided he had to go. 

Hes assaulted several COs since locked up....think he regrets anything?

There was a dude named "Evil" back in the 90s, southeast LAPD. From by far and away one of the most notorious gangs no one here has ever heard of. Pound for pound way worse than MS13 in LA.

Same thing for evil...killed like 13 people, had a hand in 20 total. He actually won his appeal, beat death row. Convicted in 1997, out in 2011....thats like a year per murder. (Keep in mind you dont always kill who you shoot...how many others did he shot that lived? Shot at and missed? Robbed? Beat? Etc etc.)

What about a guy like richard ramirez. How many homes did he break into, rape, torture then kill? Then laughed at the trial.

What about the vegas shooter? What if he lived?

Again. Very few people are sentenced to death. There are those who forfeit the right to live. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Bittaker_and_Roy_Norris

Whoa!

Yeah, those guys were absolute trash. We heard some of the tapes in the academy....

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Yeah, those guys were absolute trash. We heard some of the tapes in the academy....

In these situations it may be best to let the families of the victims deal out the punishment

[ten ocho recon scout]

Anyone remember this case? Wasnt just the crime itself...to entertain himself, the F*cker positioned the body in a particular way for whoever found her....

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

In these situations it may be best to let the families of the victims deal out the punishment

Or at bare minimum, put them in general population.

[Blarg]

17 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Or at bare minimum, put them in general population.

Like Whitey Bulger. Granted, most of his killings were of scumbags like himself but it only took mixing him into the GP in a prison with one from his own neighborhood and the death penalty was administered in MAFIA fashion.

Public gets to go on without feeling they were responsible for taking another life because that's important. 

[floplag]

Putting these animals in genpop only serves to ensure anyone else in there has no real chance at rehabilitation.  
And i listed above many reasons why the death penalty isnt about revenge, though justice is often confused for that in harsh cases. 

[Blarg]

Bittaker and Norris were considered rehabilitated after several incarcerations. 

[fan_since79]

Ricky Rene Sanders must have the best lawyers in the world, because they've been able to keep him from the needle for 36 years.

The California Supreme Court rejected his appeals in 1995, but he's still there with no execution date in sight.

 

[mtangelsfan]

It's California.  You know damn well that isn't going to happen in that state.

[Lou]

35 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

It's California.  You know damn well that isn't going to happen in that state.

thanks, libs 

 

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

thanks, libs 

 

Anything in California, politically, is "thanks libs" 

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Anything in California, politically, is "thanks libs" 

I agree