Angels hire Doug White for Pitching Coach

[Docwaukee]

50 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

Hinske was held accountable as well. He was awful too.

I don't get the argument for Nagy. Are you guys suggesting he's a great pitching coach who worked miracles and was fired because he was too good at his job? Or are you suggesting the angels are trying to lose on purpose?

If he's as good as you think he is, why was he fired? I dont get it.

why are you always auditioning for a role in the school play?

yeah.  he worked miracles.  just like every other coach manager gm owner.  he got fired because Ausmus was jealous and he was concerned that he'd lose his job to Nagy who would then steal his wife and claim his children.  Eppler made the announcement while twirling his mustache and texting Dipoto 'everything still on track.  Arte no clue.  see you sat.  wife wants italian this time.  not you lol.  dinner.  somewhere with good lasagna.  lol.  jk.'

 

[Docwaukee]

and because @JarsOfClay is a little slow.  Nagy got let go due to a change in leadership which happens in baseball and real life all the time.  

the Angels haven't been a .500 team the last 3 years because of Charles Nagy or Mike Scioscia or Alfedo Griffin or Dino Ebel or Eric Hinske.  

It's because they lacked player talent as a consequence of several years of ineptitude that preceded the current regimen.  They are rebuilding from that and Charles Nagy was collateral damage.  If he was a pitching genius, things would have been better and they would have kept him.  He wasn't.  But he wasn't a failure either.  

Honestly, the buck stops with Arte.  He owns the team and calls the shots.  If he chose the wrong people to make baseball decisions for the last 10 years, then the blame is on him.  You want unnecessary drama?  here you go.  

Pick a new team.  

[tomsred]

22 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

and because @JarsOfClay is a little slow.  Nagy got let go due to a change in leadership which happens in baseball and real life all the time.  

the Angels haven't been a .500 team the last 3 years because of Charles Nagy or Mike Scioscia or Alfedo Griffin or Dino Ebel or Eric Hinske.  

It's because they lacked player talent as a consequence of several years of ineptitude that preceded the current regimen.  They are rebuilding from that and Charles Nagy was collateral damage.  If he was a pitching genius, things would have been better and they would have kept him.  He wasn't.  But he wasn't a failure either.  

Honestly, the buck stops with Arte.  He owns the team and calls the shots.  If he chose the wrong people to make baseball decisions for the last 10 years, then the blame is on him.  You want unnecessary drama?  here you go.  

Pick a new team.  

Well done, Bravo!

[Second Base]

59 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

and because @JarsOfClay is a little slow.  Nagy got let go due to a change in leadership which happens in baseball and real life all the time.  

the Angels haven't been a .500 team the last 3 years because of Charles Nagy or Mike Scioscia or Alfedo Griffin or Dino Ebel or Eric Hinske.  

It's because they lacked player talent as a consequence of several years of ineptitude that preceded the current regimen.  They are rebuilding from that and Charles Nagy was collateral damage.  If he was a pitching genius, things would have been better and they would have kept him.  He wasn't.  But he wasn't a failure either.  

Honestly, the buck stops with Arte.  He owns the team and calls the shots.  If he chose the wrong people to make baseball decisions for the last 10 years, then the blame is on him.  You want unnecessary drama?  here you go.  

Pick a new team.  

I think it's very interesting, this rebuild that's occurred while not tanking it. I wasn't sure that was so much a possibility. I thought you're either competing or you're tanking. Eppler did just enough to keep them within the realm of competing if things went right while also rebuilding. It keeps them interesting while undergoing a complete change in the front office, dugout and on the field product. 

A quiet rebuild. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

8 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Irony (LOL variety).....didn't he go to the Astros at about the time the Cardinals were accused of spying on the Astros org?   

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

We have our own Astro spy!

[IEAngelsfan]

10 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

We have our own Astro spy!

Cool!

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, JarsOfClay said:

I dont get it.

You never do... 

To explain it to you would be a fools errand... so, as always, it's best to just let you expose your ignorance and biases for all the world to see.

Mission accomplished

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

I think it's very interesting, this rebuild that's occurred while not tanking it. I wasn't sure that was so much a possibility. I thought you're either competing or you're tanking. Eppler did just enough to keep them within the realm of competing if things went right while also rebuilding. It keeps them interesting while undergoing a complete change in the front office, dugout and on the field product. 

A quiet rebuild. 

It's been every bit of a rebuild and frankly, it's still going.  When you don't have a farm system, all you can hope for is that everything goes right and it surely didn't.  Mostly because of injuries to pitching.  We're getting closer, but 2019 will be much of the same except that we've got at least a modicum of depth in actual prospects and not just waiver pickups and minor league free agents.  likely from Thaiss, Rengifo, Ward, Canning, Suarez and maybe even Sandoval, Jones, Adell, Kreuger, Walsh, Hermosillo, Luis Pena and Joe Gatto will contribute in 2019.  

For the previous 5 years, we haven't even had any maybes.  Two years from now, we'll see a bunch of those possibles turn into yeses and more importantly, all of those maybes will get back filled.  Not everyone is going to work out but in the recent past we had zero player with zero chance.  Now we've got a bunch of players with a decent chance.  

[Second Base]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

It's been every bit of a rebuild and frankly, it's still going.  When you don't have a farm system, all you can hope for is that everything goes right and it surely didn't.  Mostly because of injuries to pitching.  We're getting closer, but 2019 will be much of the same except that we've got at least a modicum of depth in actual prospects and not just waiver pickups and minor league free agents.  likely from Thaiss, Rengifo, Ward, Canning, Suarez and maybe even Sandoval, Jones, Adell, Kreuger, Walsh, Hermosillo, Luis Pena and Joe Gatto will contribute in 2019.  

For the previous 5 years, we haven't even had any maybes.  Two years from now, we'll see a bunch of those possibles turn into yeses and more importantly, all of those maybes will get back filled.  Not everyone is going to work out but in the recent past we had zero player with zero chance.  Now we've got a bunch of players with a decent chance.  

You have to figure other teams are taking notice of what Eppler's done so far and may try to emulate it in the future.  Granted, there were some special circumstances that just can't be replicated.   Shohei Ohtani choosing the Angels, The Braves losing Kevin Maitan and the Angels being able to use their next season's budget. 

But there were definitely some factors that were in their control.  Drafting insane upside in Marsh, Adell, Adams and Jackson, chasing hard on the Bahamas because we lacked the resources to be in the race for impact prospects in the Dominican Republic, drafting Puerto Rican players, investing in guys that lack tools but have been absolute stars on the international youth scene like Orlando Martinez from Cuba and Alex Ramirez  from the Dominican Republic.  Trading lower level prospects for an expensive under-performer like Kinsler and flipping him at the deadline for prospects in the high minors that are more ready to impact the major league team. 

You have to figure Eppler may continue to use some of these tactics while we're still not in contention.  They may land themselves an expensive starting pitcher or infielder that costs little in prospects, and flip them again at the deadline when prices are a bit inflated. 

[Docwaukee]

29 minutes ago, Second Base said:

You have to figure other teams are taking notice of what Eppler's done so far and may try to emulate it in the future.  Granted, there were some special circumstances that just can't be replicated.   Shohei Ohtani choosing the Angels, The Braves losing Kevin Maitan and the Angels being able to use their next season's budget. 

But there were definitely some factors that were in their control.  Drafting insane upside in Marsh, Adell, Adams and Jackson, chasing hard on the Bahamas because we lacked the resources to be in the race for impact prospects in the Dominican Republic, drafting Puerto Rican players, investing in guys that lack tools but have been absolute stars on the international youth scene like Orlando Martinez from Cuba and Alex Ramirez  from the Dominican Republic.  Trading lower level prospects for an expensive under-performer like Kinsler and flipping him at the deadline for prospects in the high minors that are more ready to impact the major league team. 

You have to figure Eppler may continue to use some of these tactics while we're still not in contention.  They may land themselves an expensive starting pitcher or infielder that costs little in prospects, and flip them again at the deadline when prices are a bit inflated. 

that's why I'd like to see them stretch payroll a bit this year and next in order to preserve the farm system.  If things don't go as planned then you can always flip those 1yr contracts in deadline deals.  

[Second Base]

55 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

that's why I'd like to see them stretch payroll a bit this year and next in order to preserve the farm system.  If things don't go as planned then you can always flip those 1yr contracts in deadline deals.  

I think it really comes down to what you have more of available.  Money, or prospects.  In the Angels case, I'd say money.  They're a large market team that has largely behaved like a mid-market team for the last 5 years. Their payroll hasn't risen at an equal rate of inflation in MLB.  I know their limit is around 30-35 million, but I think that's because they still aren't in contending mode.  If 50 million was the difference between a World Series and another 3rd or 4th place finish, you have to think they'd spend.  

But chances are, money will be tight in the future after the Trout and Simmons extensions. Especially if Ohtani's free agency looms in a few years presses them into an extension.  But for now, get as many prospects as possible. 

They're the best chances at affording to keep our superstars, and competing on a more permanent basis. 

[Lou]

"White originally joined the organization in 2013 as pitching coach for the Class A Short Season Tri-City ValleyCats, where he helped lead the club to a New York-Penn League Championship title."

good enough for me 

[totdprods]

Reported that Nagy is a frontrunner for the Twins pitching coach gig.

Could also be that Nagy’s contract had expired and Eppler sensed he’d be going elsewhere, so it might have had nothing to do with Nagy’s performance here. 

@Jeff Fletcher, do you know which of the current coaches were/are under contract for 2019? Are they all year to year?

[T.G.]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

"White originally joined the organization in 2013 as pitching coach for the Class A Short Season Tri-City ValleyCats, where he helped lead the club to a New York-Penn League Championship title."

good enough for me 

Soon, we'll see resumes that state things like "Won his fantasy baseball league four years in a row."  Or... "Was a math tutor for six years and a certified rubix cube master."

[Jeff Fletcher]

32 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Reported that Nagy is a frontrunner for the Twins pitching coach gig.

Could also be that Nagy’s contract had expired and Eppler sensed he’d be going elsewhere, so it might have had nothing to do with Nagy’s performance here. 

@Jeff Fletcher, do you know which of the current coaches were/are under contract for 2019? Are they all year to year?

I think almost all coaches are year to year and if they do have multiyear deals it’s still for such a small amount of money that it’s no deterrent from a team replacing them if they choose. 

[Billy_Ball]

White has done a good job so far, especially with the bullpen.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think almost all coaches are year to year and if they do have multiyear deals it’s still for such a small amount of money that it’s no deterrent from a team replacing them if they choose. 

This. Big time.

Managers might have a contract. The other guys sweat it all winter....

[Tank]

Speaking of former halo coaches, Dino Ebel is the new third base coach for the doggies.

[Lou]

On October 31, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Lou said:

"White originally joined the organization in 2013 as pitching coach for the Class A Short Season Tri-City ValleyCats, where he helped lead the club to a New York-Penn League Championship title."

good enough for me 

hola 

[Docwaukee]

White has not had a positive impact on this team.   Or whatever philosophy they are applying just isn't working.  

Of course a large portion of the lack of success is on the pitcher, but it feels like everyone has gotten worse than they were last year.  Cahill, Harvey, Skaggs, Heaney, Pena.   Bedrosian is the only guys who seems to have improved.  

Pitch sequencing has been brutal and the emphasis on the four seam fastball just doesn't seem to be working.  

[Second Base]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:08 AM, Second Base said:

Put it like this.....

Doug White is from San Diego, Billy Eppler is from San Diego. 

Doug White enjoys surfing.  Billy Eppler enjoys surfing. 

Doug White tries new things when it comes to coaching pitchers. 

Billy Eppler is always looking for a new way of doing things.  Looking to get an edge. 

So basically, Billy and Doug were surfing, and Doug totally stole Billy's wave and he was like "woah bro" and Doug was like "my bad bro", and then Billy's like, "you like coaching pitchers bro" and Doug was like, "yeah bro, totes".  Then they got a beer and Billy introduced Doug to his bro, Brad, who is also like totally a coach.  They hit it off over some chips and guac and now he's the pitching coach. 

Given the outcome so far, this appears to be EXACTLY what happened.

[Docwaukee]

never mind what I said about bedrosian as he melts down and gives up hits while ahead in the count.  

sequencing for this team just sucks. 

[Second Base]

Doug White's visit to the pitching mound:

"Check it, bra. I  figured it out,  this is gonna blow your skull my man. See, the sun's like a circle, and that's kinda like a ball. So if the sun is a ball and it's hot, you can get like cancer ab's stuff.  So balls are bad dude. You should totes through strikes bro, for your health. Cuz throwing balls will like give you cancer."

Heaney: "..........woah,"

Doug: "I know bro, I just cured cancer I think. I'm gonna tell B-Rad and Willy E. They'll be stoked, bra!  I'm so tits at this coaching thing.",

Edited June 30, 2019 by Second Base

[Chuck]

Meanwhile, the pitching coach for the Texas Rangers Doug Brocail has done WONDERS for their starting staff.

Hell, even Jessie Facking Chavez is lighting it up there, in addition to Minor, Lynn, Jurado and Sampson. 

[Yellow Balloon]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Meanwhile, the pitching coach for the Texas Rangers Doug Brocail has done WONDERS for their starting staff.

Hell, even Jessie Facking Chavez is lighting it up there, in addition to Minor, Lynn, Jurado and Sampson. 

Julio Rangel is the Rangers pitching coach.  Brocail’s in Baltimore now.