2018 Hot Stove League

[Angel Oracle]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:08 AM, Dick Enberg said:

what, no Cooper?  can't forget COOP!

Coop coop, coop a loop!

[Blarg]

His reference is to potential wealth not yet realized. 

[Docwaukee]

the marlins got exactly what everyone outside of this board thought they would get.  Sanchez is a top 20 prospect.  Alfaro was a top 50 a year.  Stewart is a solid prospect throw in and they marlins got intl money.  

The Phils didn't get fleeced.  They paid the anticipated price.  The only got fleeced by the standards of those who thought we could get Relamuto without giving up Adell or Canning.  

This deal was essentially Adell, Canning, and Sandoval plus intl money.  The hefty price that many figured it would be.  

[ettin]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the marlins got exactly what everyone outside of this board thought they would get.  Sanchez is a top 20 prospect.  Alfaro was a top 50 a year.  Stewart is a solid prospect throw in and they marlins got intl money.  

The Phils didn't get fleeced.  They paid the anticipated price.  The only got fleeced by the standards of those who thought we could get Relamuto without giving up Adell or Canning.  

This deal was essentially Adell, Canning, and Sandoval plus intl money.  The hefty price that many figured it would be.  

Yes they paid a high price to obtain the best catcher in baseball right now. A lot of what they paid for was scarcity in the market. There is a case to be made that keeping Sixto, whom I really like, and just running Alfaro out would have been better for the team long-term but they went the other route.

In a sense this is akin a bit to the Angels acquiring Simmons when Eppler knew that the market, at that time, for shortstops would be thin in the near-term and spent the prospect capital we had to get Andrelton due to scarcity. This seems like a bit higher price than expected but the Phillies are certainly in a position to extend him long-term too so it probably makes a lot of sense to them.

[Lou]

not sure why everyone keeps giving Harper crap 

On October 31, 2018 at 8:30 PM, Lou said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/bryce-harper-free-agency-rumors-scott-boras-says-theres-already-a-done-deal-in-place/

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

A catcher that hits like Kole Calhoun 3 years ago.

 

Yippity do da. He's overrated imo. Certainly not worth all that prospect currency.

[ten ocho recon scout]

One of the things that makes me kind of happy is that the longer machado and harper wait to sign, the more expensive their flight to spring training will be. 

Seriously. If you guys havent gotten your flights yet, you should get on that.

[ettin]

And let's give the Marlins credit for the haul, I feel Sixto alone was a great grab, but when you add in Alfaro as a replacement catcher and Stewart it seems strong.

[Second Base]

I think the deal doesn't work out for either team. Realmuto is good in a period where there aren't any great catchers, which inflates who he actually is....which again is good. This deal won't significantly improve the Phillies in my opinion.

And for the Marlins, the few times I've watched Sixto pitch, overrated comes to mind. He has good stuff, but isn't physically imposing, doesn't have a lot of ball movement, and doesn't generate many swings and misses. I think Sixto probably ends up as a Lance McCullers, a #3/4 type of starter. Better control than McCullers, but less of an out pitch. It's probably just the home in me, but I think Griffin Canning ends up just as good as Sanchez, if not better long term.

Jorge Alfaro, the numbers really weren't that good in the minors. He a starting catcher, but I don't consider him a particularly good one. I don't really know much about the other guy. And the bonus money is just a throw in. 

I think it doesn't move the needle much for either squad. I guess if I had to pick a winner right now, it would be the Marlins, but I'm just not a huge fan of the deal for either team. 

[zenmaster]

Marlins might actually be good in 3-5 years or so, for a year. Then fire sale, rinse and repeat.

[beatlesrule]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/the-seven-reasons-mlbs-once-hot-stove-has-left-players-like-bryce-harper-and-manny-machado-in-the-cold/amp/

Interesting read.

[ettin]

Our good friend Trevor Gott is on the wire!

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/nationals-designate-trevor-gott-announce-signing-of-jeremy-hellickson.html

 

[Dick Enberg]

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

Our good friend Trevor Gott is on the wire!

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/nationals-designate-trevor-gott-announce-signing-of-jeremy-hellickson.html

 

Had hope for him, bummed when he was traded. Always thought he would have more K's and a better swing and miss rate. its guys like these, that end up with the right coach can get fixed.

[ettin]

42 minutes ago, Dick Enberg said:

Had hope for him, bummed when he was traded. Always thought he would have more K's and a better swing and miss rate. its guys like these, that end up with the right coach can get fixed.

He's still young enough to figure it out but yeah it is interesting to see how that didn't work out to-date. If he is able to add a new pitch or make adjustments he could still make an impact I think.

[Broad Street]

Harper is going to sign with the Giants within the week. Some dude from Reddit told me so 

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, Kody Mac said:

Harper is going to sign with the Giants within the week. Some dude from Reddit told me so 

that would be great 

[Docwaukee]

If the Giants sign Harper then I don't know what.  

[Lou]

4 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/the-seven-reasons-mlbs-once-hot-stove-has-left-players-like-bryce-harper-and-manny-machado-in-the-cold/amp/

Interesting read.

5. The MLBPA failed to address this trend in the last CBA

MLB and the union (MLBPA) forged the latest collective bargaining agreement (CBA) soon after the end of the 2016 season, and it will be in effect until Dec. 1, 2021. As is typically the case, the MLBPA negotiated a modest increase to the minimum salary but otherwise focused on quality-of-life issues such as chefs in the clubhouse, four additional off days during the regular season, earlier start times on getaway days and the like. Going the other way, the players allowed owners to cap international signing bonuses and make tweaks to the competitive balance tax structure. What the MLBPA didn't do was address the outdated salary structure. 

 

this shows just how dumb the MLBPA is. the owners must laugh their asses off during negotiations 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, Lou said:

5. The MLBPA failed to address this trend in the last CBA

MLB and the union (MLBPA) forged the latest collective bargaining agreement (CBA) soon after the end of the 2016 season, and it will be in effect until Dec. 1, 2021. As is typically the case, the MLBPA negotiated a modest increase to the minimum salary but otherwise focused on quality-of-life issues such as chefs in the clubhouse, four additional off days during the regular season, earlier start times on getaway days and the like. Going the other way, the players allowed owners to cap international signing bonuses and make tweaks to the competitive balance tax structure. What the MLBPA didn't do was address the outdated salary structure. 

 

this shows just how dumb the MLBPA is. the owners must laugh their asses off during negotiations 

Marvin Miller >>>>>> current MLBPA heads...

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

the MLBPA negotiated a modest increase to the minimum salary but otherwise focused on quality-of-life issues such as chefs in the clubhouse...

They gave away millions to have someone make them a sammich. Dumbasses. 

[Second Base]

To be fair, the MLBPA only acts as a representative of the players wants and needs. They do not dictate the direction front offices and ownership goes because they're designed for smaller picture needs, and not larger scope needs.

That's why we are seeing them pivot and start to get involved in something more large scale than simply how players are treated and provided for.

And I think that's why you're going to see some serious problems in a couple years. You know owners are not going to give up that power. Why would they? The only thing that's going to make them listen is if the players are unified and ready to go on strike. That's the equivalent of a suicide bomber with a nuke. You can't negotiate with that at all, because he's willing to sacrifice himself as long as it gets you too.

There is a very fine line that owners and players must toe now. One that involves the owners not giving up and large scale power and control while also making the MLBPA feel like they're being heard.

Ultimately it's bad for the game regardless. Ideal world results in teams not tanking but spending aggressively, a higher floor payroll, a higher wage for minor leaguers, an international draft, trading of draft picks and innovative ways to speed up the pace of play. But very little of that will occur while players and owners are going to war with each other focused on something small picture like making sure free agents get paid.

If you focus on the root cause, then player wages will take care of themselves. 

[Troll Daddy]

Sounds like he’ll be a Yankee if it’s for seven years 

[nando714]

Yankees will use a 7 man infield 

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Sounds like he’ll be a Yankee if it’s for seven years 

And there will be trades....they are overloaded in the INF...

[AngelsLakersFan]

21 hours ago, Lou said:

5. The MLBPA failed to address this trend in the last CBA

MLB and the union (MLBPA) forged the latest collective bargaining agreement (CBA) soon after the end of the 2016 season, and it will be in effect until Dec. 1, 2021. As is typically the case, the MLBPA negotiated a modest increase to the minimum salary but otherwise focused on quality-of-life issues such as chefs in the clubhouse, four additional off days during the regular season, earlier start times on getaway days and the like. Going the other way, the players allowed owners to cap international signing bonuses and make tweaks to the competitive balance tax structure. What the MLBPA didn't do was address the outdated salary structure. 

 

this shows just how dumb the MLBPA is. the owners must laugh their asses off during negotiations 

I remember reading something after the deal was made where a reporter asked Tony Clark if he was concerned about not getting any concessions from ownership in the area of salary structure. Clark reacted as if he didn’t understand what he could possibly be talking about. His focus was clearly on the top tier contracts and little else.