2018 Hot Stove League

[popo85]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I do think the Angels will touch base with Machado. 

To try and get Manny wouldn't they  take have to  move Cozart for added $$ also to move Cozart would it cost us a prospect(Marsh, J.Jones)?

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Am I wrong in thinking that with all these short deals were going to soon see less money per year on these short deals because we will have more free agents each year thus having more supply and the same demand?

Certainly seems logical, the norm was always more for shorter term but if this one year things is becoming this common one would assume that will change. 
Ill be honest im not sure any of this makes a lot of sense to me, its certainly a huge shift in the norms.   So far all weve seen this off season has been long term overpays or one year deals it seems. 
Its almost like the teams arent looking to commit to anything past the labor contract which i believe only has another 2 years?
IDK at this point im legit perplexed. 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, popo85 said:

To try and get Manny wouldn't they  take have to  move Cozart for added $$ also to move Cozart would it cost us a prospect(Marsh, J.Jones)?

They'd just move Cozart to 2B. Fletcher would be the UT IF or go to AAA.

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I do think the Angels will touch base with Machado. 

According to my birdie, they already did. That said, I don't know where it went from there. 

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I do think the Angels will touch base with Machado. 

If no one is even getting close to $300m, and it was even money between the White Sox and Angels, I'd have to think Manny would be more interested going somewhere that's immediately competitive. Front-load it and give him an opt-out after 2020 season so it aligns with Trout's FA and after 2021, so it aligns with Pujols' contract ending and a potentially Trout/Betts-less FA market or after 2022 - because the 2021 FA SS class is currently bonkers (Story, Lindor, Correa, Seager)

Edited January 11, 2019 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

The problem with that is that even Stanton shouldnt have gotten Stanton money.  Its telling to me that the first season he got to the AL hes already a primary DH.  Damn good one dont get me wrong but man, thats a hefty price for a one dimensional player. 

Stanton at 25 mil per is a really good value.  He was at DH last year for the same reason Darin Erstad played 1B for two years.... because the Yankees have a really good group of two way OFers.  Stanton was good for 10 DRS his final year in Miami and 46 for his career.  To put that into perspective, Kole Calhoun's best DRS season was last year when he put up 11, and he's at 51 for his career.  Pretty much all the defensive metrics paint a pretty solid picture of Stanton.... 

He will likely be back in the OF full-time the second Brett Gardner's contract expires.  

[floplag]

Just now, Chuckster70 said:

According to my birdie, they already did. That said, I don't know where it went from there. 

As that was much earlier in the process im assuming that 300 number was tossed out to which Eppler likely found a reason to get off the call.
As things stand today, short of Phi making good on thier "stupid money" promise, i dont think he gets 300 at this point its clear there isnt enough demand to support that figure. 

[angelsnationtalk]

28 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Can't blame them if they have moved on .... Douche-ado, supposedly still wants Giancarlo Stanton money.

I'm still baffled how Harper might get way more money than Machado. As much of a douche as he is, he's a wayyyyyy better player than Harper is. Offensively and defensively. 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

As that was much earlier in the process im assuming that 300 number was tossed out to which Eppler likely found a reason to get off the call.
As things stand today, short of Phi making good on thier "stupid money" promise, i dont think he gets 300 at this point its clear there isnt enough demand to support that figure. 

After all the mid-tier acquisitions the Phillies have made, you have to wonder if they still have the same amount of 'stupid money' to work with. 

I'd also think that because neither Harper or Machado seem too enamored with Philly, they might be rethinking their strategy and wondering if it'd be better to wait for Trout.

[angelsnationtalk]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

As that was much earlier in the process im assuming that 300 number was tossed out to which Eppler likely found a reason to get off the call.
As things stand today, short of Phi making good on thier "stupid money" promise, i dont think he gets 300 at this point its clear there isnt enough demand to support that figure. 

Watch Machado get $275M and Harper gets $325M. My mind will explode on how the hell a shittier player got more money. 

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Watch Machado get $275M and Harper gets $325M. My mind will explode on how the hell a shittier player got more money. 

i'm hoping for a 1 year 6.75 M contract from the Pirates to rebuild his value next year.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I'm still baffled how Harper might get way more money than Machado. As much of a douche as he is, he's a wayyyyyy better player than Harper is. Offensively and defensively. 

Character flaws have always sunk a guys value... not arguing It's fair, but MLB has always clung to stuff like that.  Some guys managed to stick around forever because people viewed them as gamers etc etc...    The biggest thing aiding Harper.... He has that 10 War season under his belt...  

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Watch Machado get $275M and Harper gets $325M. My mind will explode on how the hell a shittier player got more money. 

It's all about ceiling. Machado is obviously the superior player when it comes to being well-rounded offensively and defensively, and at specialized positions, but he's averaged Justin Upton-esque offense in seven season. Very good, and still with a ceiling of .900 - 1.000 OPS in reach, but Harper has shown the ability to go far above that as a peak and land in Mike Trout offensive territory. Barry Bonds, roid-enhanced of course, trended up sharply at 27, and I'm sure many teams think that's still to come.

It's much harder seeing Machado put up a 1.100 OPS and 199 OPS+ like Harper already has once and could easily do consistently through his prime if he gets it together. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Stanton at 25 mil per is a really good value.  He was at DH last year for the same reason Darin Erstad played 1B for two years.... because the Yankees have a really good group of two way OFers.  Stanton was good for 10 DRS his final year in Miami and 46 for his career.  To put that into perspective, Kole Calhoun's best DRS season was last year when he put up 11, and he's at 51 for his career.  Pretty much all the defensive metrics paint a pretty solid picture of Stanton.... 

He will likely be back in the OF full-time the second Brett Gardner's contract expires.  

Im curious on that, id like to see the breakdown of each number within DRS.  Was it due to arm, or glove, or actual fielding ability and positioning?  I dont recall him being the most nimble out there which considering the yankees thought the other guys were better options makes me wonder how he parsed that well. 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I'm still baffled how Harper might get way more money than Machado. As much of a douche as he is, he's a wayyyyyy better player than Harper is. Offensively and defensively. 

sounds like Macahdo is bad teammate.  I really think he limited himself by being a douche.  

[angelsnationtalk]

Watch the Angels randomly swoop in and sign Machado or Harper just because it took them too long to sign elsewhere. You know that's in the far back of Arte's mind since he loves to do that. Then they interview them afterwards and Eppler says "This has always been our game plan heading into the offseason". Later we trade either Calhoun or Cozart (depending on who we sign) and still find a way to have the AAV under $206M so there's no tax. Pujols announces retirement after 2019 and differs contract to take 30M off the books. Prospects offset the costs in 2020 and suddenly we can still spend on a good starter or bullpen arm. At the end of everything we look back in disbelief...

This is just me saying the Angels are going to do something stupid with money or do something stupid in terms of pretending they're on a budget.... again.  

 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

sounds like Macahdo is bad teammate.  I really think he limited himself by being a douche.  

Harper isn't the best of teammates as well either. Just ask Papelbon or the pitchers he's charged. But i still agree with you.

[DMVol]

35 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I'm surprised LeMathieu only got 2 years...

I'm surprised he signed with a team that doesn't have an obvious place to play him, except as a utility infielder....

[arch stanton]

Seems they’d put him at second and Torres at short and be done with it 

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Harper isn't the best of teammates as well either. Just ask Papelbon or the pitchers he's charged. But i still agree with you.

I think Papelbon has Harper topped in the dbag department. 

Harper's douchiness is overblown, in my opinion. He's an easy target, he's arrogant, he's been immature, but what do you expect from a kid who's been touted as the biggest thing in baseball since he was like, what, 12? I'm not calling him a saint or a clubhouse leader, but I am skeptical that he's as bad as the perception. 

Machado on the other hand...

Edited January 11, 2019 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Am I wrong in thinking that with all these short deals were going to soon see less money per year on these short deals because we will have more free agents each year thus having more supply and the same demand?

Back when Marvin Miller was going at it with ownership on behalf of the players and free agency he argued in favor of six years on control vs allowing players to test free agency sooner because he believed a glut of available players would end up driving salaries down...  If he was right then players will end up worse off.  Man, the next CBA is gonna be fun.

[angelsnationtalk]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It's all about ceiling. Machado is obviously the superior player when it comes to being well-rounded offensively and defensively, and at specialized positions, but he's averaged Justin Upton-esque offense in seven season. Very good, and still with a ceiling of .900 - 1.000 OPS in reach, but Harper has shown the ability to go far above that as a peak and land in Mike Trout offensive territory. Barry Bonds, roid-enhanced of course, trended up sharply at 27, and I'm sure many teams think that's still to come.

It's much harder seeing Machado put up a 1.100 OPS and 199 OPS+ like Harper already has once and could easily do consistently through his prime if he gets it together. 

I still think I'd rather have consistently good numbers across the board every season. I don't like the idea of Harper having Ervin Santana like seasons where one year he's great then the next year he sucks. With that being said, If we ever did sign Harper i'd still be happy

[popo85]

Where yall think Keuchel ends up?

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

Seems they’d put him at second and Torres at short and be done with it 

They did sign Tulo but obviously he isn't a given.....When Gregorious gets back, they have a full house....maybe they still intend to trade Andujar....

[angelsnationtalk]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think Papelbon has Harper topped in the dbag department. 

Harper's douchiness is overblown, in my opinion. He's an easy target, he's arrogant, he's been immature, but what do you expect from a kid who's been touted as the biggest thing in baseball since he was like, what, 12? I'm not calling him a saint or a clubhouse leader, but I am skeptical that he's as bad as the perception. 

Machado on the other hand...

I'd expect him to have the mindset that someone his age like Trout does. Someone who knows they are the best player but is also the humblest of players.