Kick Joe West Out of Baseball

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, True Grich said:

We need umpires that understand that every close call should go against the Red Sox.

The fans in that section should have caught Betts, pulled him into the stands and made him disappear.  I mean what's the point in having home field advantage if you can't do things like that?

Joe West, Angel Hernandez and C.B. Buckner all need to go.  Throw Doug Eddings in there too.  C'mon AW moderators - get it done. 

Throw Laz Diaz in there too.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

i see that fan in white as holding the top of the wall so he could lean farther to the right. it doesn't look to me like he's leaning INTO the field of play.

i think the umps blew this call, both on the field in and in new york.

[Blarg]

The Astros shouldn't have given up 8 runs.

[Homebrewer]

5 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

They only way that wasn't fan interference is if Betts reached into the seats. I couldn't tell one way or the other from the replay. Unless they install cameras pointing along the fence lines it's just a judgement call.

There is one right down the fence line..a security guard leaned over and completely blocked it. The only thing that camera showed was a big SECURITY jacket.

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

i see that fan in white as holding the top of the wall so he could lean farther to the right. it doesn't look to me like he's leaning INTO the field of play.

i think the umps blew this call, both on the field in and in new york.

If the fan's arm is hanging above the wall, is that considered interference?   All of the fans' arms who were involved appear to be above the wall, and not in front of it or in back of it. 

[IEAngelsfan]

8 minutes ago, Tank said:

i see that fan in white as holding the top of the wall so he could lean farther to the right. it doesn't look to me like he's leaning INTO the field of play.

i think the umps blew this call, both on the field in and in new york.

The one thing I've learned from this thread, is that Tank is color blind.  That is a gray shirt.

[m0nkey]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The Astros shouldn't have given up 8 runs.

It's a conversation on whether or not the call was correct, not whether or not the Astros should have won

[Tank]

7 minutes ago, IEAngelsfan said:

The one thing I've learned from this thread, is that Tank is color blind.  That is a gray shirt.

or maybe he needs some tide pods. did you ever think of that? no, you just focus on yourself.

i'm so disgusted with you right now.

[failos]

Should've been a ground rule double at the very least. But those fans deserve it, that was catchable.

[floplag]

57 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It was above the wall and would have gone out, but it’s debatable on where the fans made contact with his glove.   And yes him flying through the air (exaggeration maybe) glove open, his glove comes in contact with the fans and his glove closes because it was stopped while he was in motion.  

is it? seems pretty clear hes reaching into them not them over the fence to me. 

You miss my point on the glove though, the closure was universal, as though his hand closed, not part of it being closed while his hand was open which would have cause it to bend  in a partial manner first as the glove was touched then he hand... the action was a single motion. 

Unless his hand was hit from behind somewhere around the ring finger forcibly closing it, which doesnt appear to be the case from the angle of the fans hand, it would not have looked like that.   Get out a glove, test it for yourself. 

[arch stanton]

That photo shows the end of the play. Watch the video and it looks more like the fans reached over the fence and definitely looks catchable 

[Fish Oil]

I'm not a Sox fan. In fact, I hope they lose. That said, the right call was made. 

[Taylor]

I didn't see the call, but because Joe West made it, I'm going to assume it was probably wrong.

[Angel Oracle]

Watch Country Bumpkin Joe write a new song about it.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 hours ago, stormngt said:

Does the fact that Betts glove was closed when the fan touched the ball have any relevance?  Betts would never have caught the ball.

The fan caused his glove to close, so no. The only question was whether he went beyond the fence to attempt to catch it or not.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

6 hours ago, floplag said:

I think this call was asinine on many levels.   Since when do we assume outs?  Since when is interference an out?  Since when is the player entitled to anything in the stands?  I look at that reply and i see his glove closing without assistance before the ball gets there, a missed catch.    Bos was given a gift by MLB.  

Further, Rule 6.01(e) states: No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator's interference.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 hours ago, floplag said:

Thats entirely debatable, i didnt see it that way at all.  If his glove was touched the leather would have bent partially where it was touched, not closed in unison.  Alternatively his arm would have moved from push if his hand was strong enough. 
Honestly though, why does it matter?  it was obviously over the wall and fair play to fans, there is nothing that makes that illegal at all even if it was true, in fact its quite the contrary.  In play or player side of the wall is one thing, but this was clearly not that. 

I am not sure Betts reached into the stands at all. I think since you hate the Red Sox, your own Bias may be helping you make up your mind.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[AngelsLakersFan]

The rule is dumb. Who cares where the ball is in relation to the glove in relation to the fans hands. Bottom line is that ball is in the seats and Mookie is trying to pull it back. Those fans don't deserve to be ejected from the game because their seats just became in play. If Boston wants an out there then Mookie needs to catch that ball.

[floplag]

37 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Further, Rule 6.01(e) states: No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator's interference.

 

33 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I am not sure Betts reached into the stands at all. I think since you hate the Red Sox, your own Bias may be helping you make up your mind.

Or, I'm calling it how i saw it without any bias at all and you're judging me based on it and not the facts.  
From the video, the live play, and the still images there appears every possible reason to think his hand was over the wall on the fan side.   Look at the angel of his arm and his position at the fence, look at the fans none are reaching out, only sideways.
I've given many visual indicators as to why i feel how i do, not bias opinions.  
The physics simply dont support the idea that his arm was still in the field of play.  

[Pancake Bear]

My opinion is that the ball was approximately right over the line - that's how it appears to me based on several angles - when contact was made. I think it *could* have been a little (but not much) over; I don't think it was on the field side of the wall. It's close enough that I don't think anyone outside of Houston should be complaining over the call as if it's horribly bad. The fact that a bunch of people who don't give a crap about either team can't agree on it demonstrates that it was really close - ergo, not a bad call. Lucky bounce for Boston; not so lucky for Houston.

[ScottT]

I think it was crazy close and no camera angles were definitive. These aren't the type of plays replay is designed to fix.  There are always gonna be close calls.  I do think more stadiums should have a net like Wrigley Field does, though.  

[Pancake Bear]

It’s hard to judge depth, but based on this, it looks like contact right over the fence to me. I have no problem with the call. 

[Tank]

easy solution to all of this: have some kind of empty space between the wall and the first row of seats so that this kind of situation will be eliminated.

[Lhalo]

Here’s an idea: Put a couple of umpires in the foul pole corners to judge HR’s. Centerfield might be difficult to call but they’ll have a much better view than Country Joe Fatass from 2B.

Man what a concept.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Lhalo said:

Here’s an idea: Put a couple of umpires in the foul pole corners to judge HR’s. Centerfield might be difficult to call but they’ll have a much better view than Country Joe Fatass from 2B.

Man what a concept.

Well his fat ass was the right field line because it’s the playoffs.  Doesn’t matter, if you are jogging out there to make a ruling on a ball in live action and they can’t prove you right or wrong in super slow motion from multiple angles, yea it was a tough call for an umpire.