Pujols and the new manager

[Torridd]

Let's say the new manager decides to have Pujols on the bench, how do you think that would sit with Moreno? Eppler? Pujols? Will there be any ramifications? Putting him on the bench means someone starts. Any idea how that would be handled? 

[ten ocho recon scout]

The thread title sounds like a childrens book.

As of now, unless they acquire a 1B, pujols is starting at 1B.

Sadly.

[hangin n wangin]

Arte should have no say in baseball decisions anymore after his Pujols and Hamilton debacles. He needs to listen to the baseball experts. Arte is the reason were in this volcano of hell with Pujols.

And the experts need to go Pujols and present him with a paper showing him his OPS (.700), his OBP (under .300), and his WAR (under 0). Better yet, make it a power point with some nice graphics.

Pujols is dog shit and we're trying to win here and him being in the line up at 38 years old isn't helping the team anymore....at all. 

Old yeller has rabies and we're still trying to keep him in the f*cking living room. 

[Second Base]

14 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Arte should have no say in baseball decisions anymore after his Pujols and Hamilton debacles. He needs to listen to the baseball experts. Arte is the reason were in this volcano of hell with Pujols.

And the experts need to go Pujols and present him with a paper showing him his OPS (.700), his OBP (under .300), and his WAR (under 0). Better yet, make it a power point with some nice graphics.

Pujols is dog shit and we're trying to win here and him being in the line up at 38 years old isn't helping the team anymore....at all. 

Old yeller has rabies and we're still trying to keep him in the f*cking living room. 

[floplag]

Pujols
Will
Not 
Be
Benched

Seriously people get over it, until he completely gives out, there is no shot this happens.  He may not have been vintage awesome last year but he was a positive WAR (per ESPN) although basically average but still our best option. 

Until either
A.  We sign another 1B
Or
B.  Thaiss or someone else forces the issue
He will be there.

[Second Base]

Also, typically everyone is hired into a job with certain confines they have to work within.  It happens in sports, and it happens in all our jobs.  It's just one of those things you tolerate.

Billy Eppler was hired into a pretty unfavorable situation.

1. He couldn't choose his manager or coaching staff. 

2. He couldn't spend any money because his predecessor spent it all. 

3. Pujols was his first baseman, period. 

4. They liked his background with analytics, but wanted him to take it easy with those at first to accommodate the manager and coaching staff.  It isn't to say they were opposed to those as much as it was to say, "make sure everyone can see the value in these and that everyone is on board before trying to implement them." 

5. He had to rebuild the farm despite not having the top pick, and he had to use the old scouting director (Ric Wilson) because of how late in the process it was. 

6. Also he had to re-establish our international presence despite the Baldoquin restrictions being in place (limited funds, can't spend more than 300k on any prospect. 

As we can see Eppler walked into a freakin' nightmare situation for a GM.  Basically all the allowances and control other GM's had, he didn't have.  He was a GM in name only, because ultimately he's still reporting to an over-involved owner.  But Eppler has put in his time and produced insanely good work, so it's his turn to ultimately dictate the direction of the organization, that includes hiring his own manager and coaching staff. 

The incoming coach is coming in with a few basic rules to follow.  His decisions must be mathematically-based, and Albert Pujols is his starting 1B.  The other rules are much easier to work within, like Mike Trout is your CF, Shohei Ohtani is your DH, Andrelton Simmons is your SS and Justin Upton is your LF.  Those are the ones that you gladly follow. If this new manager has an insane amount of success, then he can start having more freedom in what he does and doesn't do.

[kevinb]

Pujols isn't sitting

[Troll Daddy]

12 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Also, typically everyone is hired into a job with certain confines they have to work within.  It happens in sports, and it happens in all our jobs.  It's just one of those things you tolerate.

Billy Eppler was hired into a pretty unfavorable situation.

1. He couldn't choose his manager or coaching staff. 

2. He couldn't spend any money because his predecessor spent it all. 

3. Pujols was his first baseman, period. 

4. They liked his background with analytics, but wanted him to take it easy with those at first to accommodate the manager and coaching staff.  It isn't to say they were opposed to those as much as it was to say, "make sure everyone can see the value in these and that everyone is on board before trying to implement them." 

5. He had to rebuild the farm despite not having the top pick, and he had to use the old scouting director (Ric Wilson) because of how late in the process it was. 

6. Also he had to re-establish our international presence despite the Baldoquin restrictions being in place (limited funds, can't spend more than 300k on any prospect. 

As we can see Eppler walked into a freakin' nightmare situation for a GM.  Basically all the allowances and control other GM's had, he didn't have.  He was a GM in name only, because ultimately he's still reporting to an over-involved owner.  But Eppler has put in his time and produced insanely good work, so it's his turn to ultimately dictate the direction of the organization, that includes hiring his own manager and coaching staff. 

The incoming coach is coming in with a few basic rules to follow.  His decisions must be mathematically-based, and Albert Pujols is his starting 1B.  The other rules are much easier to work within, like Mike Trout is your CF, Shohei Ohtani is your DH, Andrelton Simmons is your SS and Justin Upton is your LF.  Those are the ones that you gladly follow. If this new manager has an insane amount of success, then he can start having more freedom in what he does and doesn't do.

Poor Billy ... why am i not crying  

[Angel Oracle]

48 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Arte should have no say in baseball decisions anymore after his Pujols and Hamilton debacles. He needs to listen to the baseball experts. Arte is the reason were in this volcano of hell with Pujols.

And the experts need to go Pujols and present him with a paper showing him his OPS (.700), his OBP (under .300), and his WAR (under 0). Better yet, make it a power point with some nice graphics.

Pujols is dog shit and we're trying to win here and him being in the line up at 38 years old isn't helping the team anymore....at all. 

Old yeller has rabies and we're still trying to keep him in the f*cking living room. 

A bit overstated, but the sentiment has merit.   He should not see over 100 starts total (20 DH max and 80 1B max), and should absolutely not hit any higher than 6th as long as he has no higher than a .700 OPS. 

[Dtwncbad]

Sign a 1B and start Pujols at 3rd base everyday until he gets hurt.  By April 20th, the Angels will be rid of him for the rest of the year.

Problem solved.

[Second Base]

39 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Poor Billy ... why am i not crying  

[tomsred]

47 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Sign a 1B and start Pujols at 3rd base everyday until he gets hurt.  By April 20th, the Angels will be rid of him for the rest of the year.

Problem solved.

Sounds like something the Saudi's would do.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Pujols
Will
Not 
Be
Benched

Seriously people get over it, until he completely gives out, there is no shot this happens.  He may not have been vintage awesome last year but he was a positive WAR (per ESPN) although basically average but still our best option. 

Until either
A.  We sign another 1B
Or
B.  Thaiss or someone else forces the issue
He will be there.

So flop you're saying that the new manager has no say in this matter?

[mp170.6]

Maybe they could force Pujols to retire early by making him play catcher and have Angels pitchers hit him with pitches.

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, Torridd said:

So flop you're saying that the new manager has no say in this matter?

No, im saying that there is zero chance the org benches him in the next 1-2 years unless his numbers decline sharply. 
His problem isnt his play, its his contract.  He is still the best option we have at the spot, hes just over payed to do it based on his production.  It isnt like we have literally anyone pressing him right now so... its moot unless or until that changes. 

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

No, im saying that there is zero chance the org benches him in the next 1-2 years unless his numbers decline sharply. 
His problem isnt his play, its his contract.  He is still the best option we have at the spot, hes just over payed to do it based on his production.  It isnt like we have literally anyone pressing him right now so... its moot unless or until that changes. 

Maybe they have no replacement because they know he’s there so they don’t pursue one. It’s a self-licking ice cream cone 

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Maybe they have no replacement because they know he’s there so they don’t pursue one. It’s a self-licking ice cream cone 

Or maybe they dont feel one is out there thats worth it?  Is it worth eating his money to get a guy thats maybe half a point of WAR better?  isnt that money better spent elsewhere?

Yes, hes there, hes going to be there as long as hes on the positive side of the ledger even if only barely, or until we have a better option.  

I suspect the hope is that Thaiss needs a little more seasoning and when hes ready Albert get the talk, but till then, its kinda moot at least for next year.

[hangin n wangin]

Just now, floplag said:

No, im saying that there is zero chance the org benches him in the next 1-2 years unless his numbers decline sharply. 
His problem isnt his play, its his contract.  He is still the best option we have at the spot, hes just over payed to do it based on his production.  It isnt like we have literally anyone pressing him right now so... its moot unless or until that changes. 

With all due respect, may I ask....

WTF are you talking about? The problem is his play AND his contract.

 

[floplag]

Just now, hangin n wangin said:

With all due respect, may I ask....

WTF are you talking about? The problem is his play AND his contract.

 

Take the contract out of it, hes still our best option based on his play.   We simply dont have a better option that justifies eating that kind of deal.  
Frankly even if we did i dont think the club humiliates a HOF in that manner.. he will be allowed to bow out gracefully. 

[Barrett]

20 minutes ago, floplag said:

No, im saying that there is zero chance the org benches him in the next 1-2 years unless his numbers decline sharply. 
His problem isnt his play, its his contract.  He is still the best option we have at the spot, hes just over payed to do it based on his production.  It isnt like we have literally anyone pressing him right now so... its moot unless or until that changes. 

It isn't just his contract that sucks. He sucks as a baseball player. Look at his numbers the last 3 years they are dreadful. I wouldn't sign Pujols to a league minimum contract.

[Barrett]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

Take the contract out of it, hes still our best option based on his play.   We simply dont have a better option that justifies eating that kind of deal.  
Frankly even if we did i dont think the club humiliates a HOF in that manner.. he will be allowed to bow out gracefully. 

All you have to find is a 1 WAR player and he is better than Pujols. 

[greginpsca]

I think any new acquisitions will be pitchers  { except for a catcher].  As, far as first base goes, Pujols platoon partner would more than likely come internally. Like Thaiss. 

 

[Dtwncbad]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

Take the contract out of it, hes still our best option based on his play.   We simply dont have a better option that justifies eating that kind of deal.  
Frankly even if we did i dont think the club humiliates a HOF in that manner.. he will be allowed to bow out gracefully. 

You have it backwards.  The contract actually isn't really a problem (other than that money could have been better spent).  The Angels can afford to have some large contracts. 

The real problem is he sucks.

[Second Base]

20 minutes ago, floplag said:

No, im saying that there is zero chance the org benches him in the next 1-2 years unless his numbers decline sharply. 
His problem isnt his play, its his contract.  He is still the best option we have at the spot, hes just over payed to do it based on his production.  It isnt like we have literally anyone pressing him right now so... its moot unless or until that changes. 

His production has already taken a sharp decline.  Right now, he's a well below average starting first baseman in the major leagues, and his numbers continue to tail off at a rate consistent with his age.  Right now, Jose Miguel Fernandez has to at least be a comparable option.  He won't offer Pujols' over the fence power, but he will log more doubles.  He'll hit for a higher average and get on base more than Pujols as well, though admittedly Pujols still appears to be a pretty decent defender at 1B and Fernandez is really just learning that spot.  

If Thaiss and Walsh continue to develop, they'll be better options than Pujols by the midway point of 2019. 

So it isn't as if Pujols should be the starting first baseman.  That concept is very debatable, and even if he should be the starting first baseman, the duration of that is certainly in question.  That probably shouldn't be the case any longer than a month or two. 

But you are right that it's all for naught.

It doesn't matter if Pujols should or shouldn't be the starting first baseman.  The fact of the matter is, he is.   

[hangin n wangin]

24 minutes ago, floplag said:

Take the contract out of it, hes still our best option based on his play.   We simply dont have a better option that justifies eating that kind of deal.  
Frankly even if we did i dont think the club humiliates a HOF in that manner.. he will be allowed to bow out gracefully. 

He's our best option (and even that's extremely debatable at this point) because the Angels have done nothing to fix it. It's a professional business. Deals get eaten all of the time. Next year will be the third year of terrible production from him, unless we're believing the knee surgery is going to magically cure him. Enough is enough. He's had his chance. This isn't a tee ball tournament where all the kids have to play. This is a professional sport and he's been given 7 out of 10 years to prove himself. And I think 7 years is enough to see the contract was putrid and didn't work. Move on.

And the time period to bow out gracefully for Pujols has ended already. It's ugly and only going to get uglier.