Its funny how fast Yankee news escalates...

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

We would certainly have to upgrade the offense from a middle of the pack status. Angels were 20th in OPS last year.

Shedding Kinsler, Marte, Valbuena, and Young should help some in that regard. Even with his hot streak, Calhoun still finished with an 80 OPS+ too, meaning he was still a well below average hitter.

We need both. I’m confident that a rotation of even five #3 types would snowball into some bullpen gains, and the hitting prospects will close some of that gap.

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

We had 16 total guys log starts for us.  Of that 16 3 started more games than he did.  7 of them had a better ERA than he did.   8 had a better WHIP.  
If this is your idea of an upgrade we are in trouble.  

What is the Angels current rotation in your opinion?

 

I say this because I see plenty of room for a guy like Gray in it, as well as hopefully someone a little better.

[WeatherWonk]

35 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Shedding Kinsler, Marte, Valbuena, and Young should help some in that regard. Even with his hot streak, Calhoun still finished with an 80 OPS+ too, meaning he was still a well below average hitter.

 

Well, yeah, but they were stopgap solutions to a previous set of underperformers. We need to go beyond this kind of solution.

[WeatherWonk]

The obvious destination for Gray is Oakland, of course. It's Beane's MO to bring back former pitchers, on the cheap. 

And, boy, are they gonna need starters next year.

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Well, yeah, but they were stopgap solutions to a previous set of underperformers. We need to go beyond this kind of solution.

To a degree. Fletcher or Rengifo might be our starting 2B for the immediate future. Thaiss might be the missing piece at 1B. Ward might be a 3B. 
It might be worth giving the ABs to these guys for a season just to see if any can stick as being that long-term solution so we don't have to acquire all of the above every year. 

We just don't have the same depth on the staff to take that risk. 

I would prioritize: 
1) trading for a buy-low, mid-rotation starter with #2 upside (Gray, Stroman, Urena, Bundy, Wheeler, Junis)
2) signing a vet 5th SP who eats up innings - preferably one good enough for the bigs (Lynn, Gio, Sabathia, Hellickson), but a ST invite works (Hughes, Liriano)
3) signing one vet reliever, ST invite for a second (Robertson, Romo, Norris, Kelly, Kelley, Familia, Allen, anyone)
4) trading for a catcher (McCann, Diaz, Narvaez, Knapp, Cervelli, Hedges, Realmuto)
5) signing an MLB infielder with some versatility and OBP (from a bigger name like Gonzalez, Escobar to mid-range like Forsythe all the way down to Descalso)

I'm not entirely sold on Eppler's FO's bility to trade/sign hitters developed on other teams. Most have not worked out so far. So to me, it's another reason to side with the internal options and see if whomever is scouting/developing the kids has a better eye for hitting than whomever is scouting the bigs for hitters. 

[floplag]

30 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

What is the Angels current rotation in your opinion?

 

I say this because I see plenty of room for a guy like Gray in it, as well as hopefully someone a little better.

Well i think the better question is what do you see it as that you think we have that room in it?  I count at least 6 guys in the mix on opening day on our current roster not counting injuries (Ohtani / Ramirez) or FA (Richards) or guys that got a spot bullpen game start.  

Dont get me wrong, im not anti SP at all, but when i look at the big picture and the overall needs of this club, i view it as a luxury.   We will have about 30M to spend, where should it go?

We have obvious lineup holes at C and 1B.  Possible concerns at 3B or RF.  The bullpen is far better today that it was opening day 18, but it still needs something to solidify it at the back end imo.  To me these things have to come first, its really that simple.   It comes down to how to allocate our available resources.   

Now, if you address some of those holes thru other means, such a trade for a Realmuto or Arrenado for example who wont get super expensive for another couple years, then that changes things, but, as we stand today that isnt the case. 

I would love to get a true #1, i truly would.  I guess I just dont see the benefit of it if the other concerns are left untouched.    Being better every 5th day isnt that much overall gain.  Having a go to guy for game 1 in a playoff series does no good if you dont get there. 

All of this assumes we intend to actually compete in 19, which may or may not be the case.  And by compete i mean more than being in the wildcard conversation.  

[jordan]

How about Gray for Cozart?  Though the money is off a little.  Maybe Angels chip in $3 mil for 2019.  But I like Cozart’s flexibility. So I’m not sold on trading him.  I’m just seeing what you all think.   This would open up money for 2020 season. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by jordan

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

Well i think the better question is what do you see it as that you think we have that room in it?  I count at least 6 guys in the mix on opening day on our current roster not counting injuries (Ohtani / Ramirez) or FA (Richards) or guys that got a spot bullpen game start.   

I think right now you have to look at the rotation as Heaney, Skaggs and Shoemaker, with an understanding that none of these guys can be counted on to throw 200 innings. Everyone else is just depth.

Barria probably ends up in the rotation but looking at him honestly, he is a back of the rotation starter with options and we are obviously going to need to plan at least 7 or 8 deep on the depth chart. I'd like to see him be the first guy called up when injury strikes.

Everyone else I can live without, but we will ultimately need them to fill in for injuries and plug holes in the bullpen. 

I'd hope the team brings in at least two starters who could potentially pitch near the top of the rotation or at least be expected to pitch as well as Heaney and Skaggs. I don't think there is a higher priority than this, except perhaps bringing in a 1B/3B who can hit.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think right now you have to look at the rotation as Heaney, Skaggs and Shoemaker, with an understanding that none of these guys can be counted on to throw 200 innings. Everyone else is just depth.

Barria probably ends up in the rotation but looking at him honestly, he is a back of the rotation starter with options and we are obviously going to need to plan at least 7 or 8 deep on the depth chart. I'd like to see him be the first guy called up when injury strikes.

Everyone else I can live without, but we will ultimately need them to fill in for injuries and plug holes in the bullpen. 

I'd hope the team brings in at least two starters who could potentially pitch near the top of the rotation or at least be expected to pitch as well as Heaney and Skaggs. I don't think there is a higher priority than this, except perhaps bringing in a 1B/3B who can hit.

OK well thats my point, how do you do that, get 2 starters AND address those needs in 30M?   The 2 starters alone will likely cost the lions share of that.   This isnt a have your cake and eat it to thing, you will likely have to chose between 2 starters and going with the kids on offense, or upgrading the offense and going with the depth we have in the rotation. 

As I said trades may change a lot of that but noone here wants to give up anything of value in that regard either so...  Were not getting impact players thru trades and keeping all the kids.

There is virtually no scenario where we are actually competitive in 19 by staying within budget and keeping the farm intact.   Choose wisely. 

[eligrba]

I wish for a rotation with Barria being the 5th starter. I like Barria and he would be a really good 5th starter.

[ettin]

5 hours ago, totdprods said:

In the event that does happen...

What about Didi as the 2B/3B? Eppler was a driver in bringing him to NYY if I recall, and he likes snapping up guys in their walk year. Also has the camaraderie with Simmons being countrymen.

Yeah I could see @VictorRojas29 making the call: "Ball hit deep in the corner! Didi makes a nice diving stop, gets up, fires to first! Oh no!!!!! Another unforced error as he buries it in the dirt 4 feet in front of him! That is Gregorious' 312th unforced error of the season."

[ukyah]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

RE Gray, 23 starts, 4.99 ERA, 1.5 WHIP.  Dont we have enough guys that can do that already? 
The Yankees have pitching issues and dont want him apparently, that has to be a red flag.
Pass  

there is a long history of pitchers failing in yankee stadium, only to rebound in another environment. if i was eppler, i'd be interested to listen to the yankees.

[floplag]

6 minutes ago, ukyah said:

there is a long history of pitchers failing in yankee stadium, only to rebound in another environment. if i was eppler, i'd be interested to listen to the yankees.

Again i say, if this is our idea of an upgrade, a chance that a guy will rebound, were screwed.  9 mil, almost a third of our budget, on a wing and a prayer?   If he doesnt rebound were dead meat. 

[2020worldseries]

15 minutes ago, floplag said:

Again i say, if this is our idea of an upgrade, a chance that a guy will rebound, were screwed.  9 mil, almost a third of our budget, on a wing and a prayer?   If he doesnt rebound were dead meat. 

3.17 era, 9.9 k/9, 1.15 whip, 614 ops on the road in 2018 - just get him out of yankee stadium and he will be fine - probably a #2/3 starter

[hangin n wangin]

42 minutes ago, floplag said:

Again i say, if this is our idea of an upgrade, a chance that a guy will rebound, were screwed.  9 mil, almost a third of our budget, on a wing and a prayer?   If he doesnt rebound were dead meat. 

He has a career 3.66 ERA, and he's still young, so it's not like he is on the downside of his career. He's had a pretty solid career overall. Pitchers have down years. It happens on many occasions.

[floplag]

32 minutes ago, 2020worldseries said:

3.17 era, 9.9 k/9, 1.15 whip, 614 ops on the road in 2018 - just get him out of yankee stadium and he will be fine - probably a #2/3 starter

 

3 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

He has a career 3.66 ERA, and he's still young, so it's not like he is on the downside of his career. He's had a pretty solid career overall. Pitchers have down years. It happens on many occasions.

If you say so guys.  Our record with such projects is so good im sure you are right.  

[hangin n wangin]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

 

If you say so guys.  Our record with such projects is so good im sure you are right.  

It’s not me saying so. Those are his numbers. They are facts.

[totdprods]

Unless you want to deal Adell, Canning, or package half of our Top 10, you pretty much have to target someone like Sonny Gray or any other player who is coming off a down year.

It’s hilarious how freaked out this board gets when talking about acquiring anyone who has either yet to reach their ceiling, or is coming off a down year. 

You gotta roll the dice sometimes and trust your scouts and trust the player, or be willing to overpay. 

[eligrba]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Unless you want to deal Adell, Canning, or package half of our Top 10, you pretty much have to target someone like Sonny Gray or any other player who is coming off a down year.

It’s hilarious how freaked out this board gets when talking about acquiring anyone who has either yet to reach their ceiling, or is coming off a down year. 

You gotta roll the dice sometimes and trust your scouts and trust the player, or be willing to overpay. 

No you do not.....sometimes the numbers are telling the truth. 

Exhibit A:

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, eligrba said:

No you do not.....sometimes the numbers are telling the truth. 

Exhibit A:

Whole different FO.

Simmons is a defensive specialist, Yelich is only a little better than Calhoun, what is Eppler doing trading Bandy for Maldonado, etc.

edit: Jesus, that was 10 years ago.

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

OK well thats my point, how do you do that, get 2 starters AND address those needs in 30M?   The 2 starters alone will likely cost the lions share of that.   This isnt a have your cake and eat it to thing, you will likely have to chose between 2 starters and going with the kids on offense, or upgrading the offense and going with the depth we have in the rotation. 

As I said trades may change a lot of that but noone here wants to give up anything of value in that regard either so...  Were not getting impact players thru trades and keeping all the kids.

There is virtually no scenario where we are actually competitive in 19 by staying within budget and keeping the farm intact.   Choose wisely. 

This is why I started by saying "if the price is right"

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This is why I started by saying "if the price is right"

Define right?  There is almost no chance you get a quality SP for less than 10-15 per in todays market. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Define right?  There is almost no chance you get a quality SP for less than 10-15 per in todays market. 

He is due to make about $9 million in arbitration.  Look at his road numbers from last year, he was legit.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Define right?  There is almost no chance you get a quality SP for less than 10-15 per in todays market. 

At $9 mil, coming off a rough year that has the Yankees looking to trade him, and with impending free agency, he isn't going to cost much in terms of prospects. We should leave with our core group of prospects intact as well as most of our budget.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

At $9 mil, coming off a rough year that has the Yankees looking to trade him, and with impending free agency, he isn't going to cost much in terms of prospects. We should leave with our core group of prospects intact as well as most of our budget.

Would you trade Kole straight up for him?