Question regarding Pujols

[Lou]

Saberhagen is 54 years old.

Bonilla is 55 years old.

yeah, they're relevant.

[Dtwncbad]

/espn/story/_/id/7882542/stars-kevin-garnett-manny-ramirez-signed-deferred-contracts-espn-magazine

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

that a lot of teams have done it with a player's contract 

I never said a lot of teams have done it.

But there are clear examples of SOME teams creating deferred compensation as a feature of a deal.

Let's clean this up.

Deferred contracts exist today.  Players are getting paid today with deferred salary.  That is happening today.

I have never seen anything that suggests you cannot do this anymore.

No I am not reading 4000 pages of CBA to look for something.

Everything I have said is based on assuming what I am witnessing today is not specifically prohibited.

If anyone else doesn't want to talk about this subject before they determine in research that for sure there is no new rule preventing another team from using deferred salary, them that is up to them.

[mtangelsfan]

10 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

No.  Restructure with deferred payments.  How does the CBA mathematically treat a deferred payment deal?

How is Bret Saberhagens money every year treated? 

I would think, (my opinion only) that would only work if he was still playing.  It has to count immediately if he isn't playing anymore and they buy it out.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Deferred contracts exist today

name them, please.

thank you.

[Dtwncbad]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Those were about 3 CBAs ago.

I can't think of an example of any kind of restructured deal anytime in the past decade.

1 minute search.

Manny Ramirez 2011 deferred $32m over 16 years restructured from his original 160m deal.

Yes maybe there was a CBA since but your argue of no examples in a decade tool 1 minute to show otherwise.

 

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

1 minute search.

Manny Ramirez 2011 deferred $32m over 16 years restructured from his original 160m deal.

Yes maybe there was a CBA since but your argue of no examples in a decade tool 1 minute to show otherwise.

 

So is that counting on Boston's salary for the next 9 years?

[Dtwncbad]

On a plane out of battery.

This is a dumb conversation.  There is no rule that says an owner and player cannot restructure the cash payments to the player as long as the player isn't taking less money.

Then the CBS will treat the deal for lux tax purposes however those rules are applied.

The point is an owner can achieve actual real world cash flow relief.

The interest in arguing this is dumb.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

1 minute search.

Manny Ramirez 2011 deferred $32m over 16 years restructured from his original 160m deal.

Yes maybe there was a CBA since but your argue of no examples in a decade tool 1 minute to show otherwise.

 

when the hell did I ever say "in a decade"?  Stop making shit up.

THIS is what I said:

38 minutes ago, Lou said:

can you please give me examples of other teams doing this since the inception of the luxury tax, salary cap and CBA? 

thanks 

 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

So is that counting on Boston's salary for the next 9 years?

I dont know and that doesn't matter for the point I am making.

The Red Sox achieved cash flow relief.  That alone has value and is an interesting point for the Angels since Jeff Fletcher said Arte is more closely watching actual cash out rather than the lux tax calcilation.

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

when the hell did I ever say "in a decade"?  Stop making shit up.

THIS is what I said:

 

In fairness I think he was responding to Jeff Fletcher who did say "in the past decade".

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

when the hell did I ever say "in a decade"?  Stop making shit up.

THIS is what I said:

 

Responded to wring person Lou.  Jeff said decade.

Now at 3% battery

[yk9001]

Many a phone battery have died fighting message board/social media battles.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Many a phone battery have died fighting message board/social media battles.

and when talking to your significant other.

but mostly message boards 

 

[Docwaukee]

@Dtwncbad

deferred contracts exist.  money can be deferred but that deferral counts proportionately to the CBT.  you can't defer the tax number.  

To calculate the CBT number, the total amount of money the player is paid is averaged over the number of years of that contract.  

Take a look at Scherzer's contract.  he got 10m in 2015, 15m from 16-18 and will get 35m from 19-21.  He then gets 15m per year from 2022-2028 when the contract ends but that money is included in the first 7 years of the deal when figuring the CBT number.  

Because of that deferred money, the present day value of the contract was actually closer to 190m as opposed to 210m.  So his tax hit was 190/7 or a little over 27mil per.  

So whatever deal they work with pujols, their CBT hit will be 72mil over the next three years.  

[Angel Oracle]

We can only hope that Pujols can produce and stay healthy, while being limited to 20 DH starts and 50-60 1B starts in 2019 and maybe 2020.

If that miracle happens, then he can retire with just 2021 on the books.

But, they need to find a 1B who can produce well in those 100-110 1B starts.  JMF?  Thaiss?  Walsh?  Someone via trade or FA? 

[DMVol]

11 hours ago, Kevinb said:

But he’s getting full salary paid. Is it counting on the books?

Yes...you can’t erase a bad deal...Josh Hamilton counted against the luxury tax when we were paying him to go away (except for a small amount Texas paid)....

[fanfromday1]

Just some 'Out-of-the-Box' thinking here, and I'm sure it won't be a popular idea, but what if the Angels offered Pujols a new contract with a '1' year extension. Something like they did with Upton last year. Give him a contract for an additional year at a very low amount that would lower his average salary over the next few years. Then just keep him on the team as a pinch-hitter only.  Would something like that offer the Angel sufficient salary relief ?

[Docwaukee]

37 minutes ago, fanfromday1 said:

Just some 'Out-of-the-Box' thinking here, and I'm sure it won't be a popular idea, but what if the Angels offered Pujols a new contract with a '1' year extension. Something like they did with Upton last year. Give him a contract for an additional year at a very low amount that would lower his average salary over the next few years. Then just keep him on the team as a pinch-hitter only.  Would something like that offer the Angel sufficient salary relief ?

it would, but I think it would be viewed as a direct manipulation of the CBT and likely would not be approved.  It the reason he got a 10 year personal services contract and not a 20 year deal of 250 mil with 1mil salaries in each of the last 10 years.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Is there a new rule?  Or were the saberhagan and Bonilla deals done against the rules? 

You bet..... A bunch of them.

Those deals were made under different CBAs, whatever the rules were then, they wouldn't apply today.

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You bet..... A bunch of them.

Those deals were made under different CBAs, whatever the rules were then, they wouldn't apply today.

they didn't even have a tax back then.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

@Dtwncbad

deferred contracts exist.  money can be deferred but that deferral counts proportionately to the CBT.  you can't defer the tax number.  

To calculate the CBT number, the total amount of money the player is paid is averaged over the number of years of that contract.  

Take a look at Scherzer's contract.  he got 10m in 2015, 15m from 16-18 and will get 35m from 19-21.  He then gets 15m per year from 2022-2028 when the contract ends but that money is included in the first 7 years of the deal when figuring the CBT number.  

Because of that deferred money, the present day value of the contract was actually closer to 190m as opposed to 210m.  So his tax hit was 190/7 or a little over 27mil per.  

So whatever deal they work with pujols, their CBT hit will be 72mil over the next three years.  

Chris Davis is another guy who had deferred money baked into his deal.... Hes counting as 23 mil per year for tax reasons despite having 6 mil per year deferred to be paid from 2023-2037.

[tomsred]

I want Pujols to come back in 2019 healthy and hot to start the year, then when Ohtani can hit again Pujols can rest on the bench.  I'm sure the Angels have some smart attorneys who can investigate the relevant documents for any loopholes.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, tomsred said:

I want Pujols to come back in 2019 healthy and hot to start the year, then when Ohtani can hit again Pujols can rest on the bench.  I'm sure the Angels have some smart attorneys who can investigate the relevant documents for any loopholes.

pujos is hot.  

[Dtwncbad]

So for the 4th (?) time I was never arguing that deferring would help the lux tax.

Fletcher said the word is that real dollars out, actual annual payroll amounts paid out, were what Arte more cared about.

So making a deal with deferred money would provide salary relief in real dollars.

I see no sign of Pujols agreeing to getting out of the way so it probably doesn't matter.

[YouthofToday]

2 hours ago, fanfromday1 said:

Just some 'Out-of-the-Box' thinking here, and I'm sure it won't be a popular idea, but what if the Angels offered Pujols a new contract with a '1' year extension. Something like they did with Upton last year. Give him a contract for an additional year at a very low amount that would lower his average salary over the next few years. Then just keep him on the team as a pinch-hitter only.  Would something like that offer the Angel sufficient salary relief ?

Why would we waste a valuable roster spot on a garbage hitter?