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MLB award silliness read today


floplag

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So let me see if i have all this logic (term used very loosely) straight.  
Betts has to be the AL MVP cause Trout missed too many games even though he played more than Betts?
deGrom has to be the NL Cy young even though hes playing on a losing team but Trout shouldnt even though we won more than the Mets? 
The cases for these players alone should make Trout the leader in the conversations if this is the best logic they can come up with to deny him.   
But they will, his days of getting a mulligan for our team being sub par are pretty much over i think. 
 

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18 minutes ago, floplag said:

So let me see if i have all this logic (term used very loosely) straight.  
Betts has to be the AL MVP cause Trout missed too many games even though he played more than Betts?
deGrom has to be the NL Cy young even though hes playing on a losing team but Trout shouldnt even though we won more than the Mets? 
The cases for these players alone should make Trout the leader in the conversations if this is the best logic they can come up with to deny him.   
But they will, his days of getting a mulligan for our team being sub par are pretty much over i think. 
 

I, admittedly,  haven't really been paying much attention to the arguments for or against each candidate.  However, if Betts end up winning he's worthy: leads the entire MLB in average and SLG %, went 30/30, is overall WAR leader.  I'd love to see Trout get it again as he's put up his best numbers to date but, unless some guys split the vote, it looks like it's going to Betts.  Ultimately, your view on it will be influenced by how much you think the team the player is on should impact the vote.  Betts was on a much better offense and had more opportunity to hit with runners on base and was actually pitched to due to the fact that Benintendi and Martinez loomed later in line-up.  Trout, due to the awfulness of the surrounding batters, was pitched around and led the league in intentional walks by a wide margin.  Both did the most with what they were given in a similar amount of games, both are worthy of AL MVP.

deGrom is more cut and dried - he's the best pitcher in the MLB right now.  They had a graphic the other day that said if the Mets scored at 3 runs a game for him he'd have been 27-3 or some ridiculous figure.  

Trout and Betts are least somewhat comparable while deGrom has been incomparable.

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20 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I, admittedly,  haven't really been paying much attention to the arguments for or against each candidate.  However, if Betts end up winning he's worthy: leads the entire MLB in average and SLG %, went 30/30, is overall WAR leader.  I'd love to see Trout get it again as he's put up his best numbers to date but, unless some guys split the vote, it looks like it's going to Betts.  Ultimately, your view on it will be influenced by how much you think the team the player is on should impact the vote.  Betts was on a much better offense and had more opportunity to hit with runners on base and was actually pitched to due to the fact that Benintendi and Martinez loomed later in line-up.  Trout, due to the awfulness of the surrounding batters, was pitched around and led the league in intentional walks by a wide margin.  Both did the most with what they were given in a similar amount of games, both are worthy of AL MVP.

deGrom is more cut and dried - he's the best pitcher in the MLB right now.  They had a graphic the other day that said if the Mets scored at 3 runs a game for him he'd have been 27-3 or some ridiculous figure.  

Trout and Betts are least somewhat comparable while deGrom has been incomparable.

Im not arguing that, i agree with you, im simply stating that the reasons people are using to justify it are not the correct ones :)

Though im not sure i agree with the deGrom has been incomparable part, Sherzer has been very close and better in some areas in similar innings pitched.   They have the same WHIP and Sherzer has many more Ks while deGrom has the far better ERA.   I would lean deGrom but not by a huge margin.

Ultimately it coems down to how you define value and whether or not that includes a winning team, though neither the Nets or Mets are making the post so... meh 

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

Im not arguing that, i agree with you, im simply stating that the reasons people are using to justify it are not the correct ones :)

Well, if there is one thing that is consistent it's no group of sports writers can seem to agree on what's a proper criteria for these awards.  In the past, usually if you weren't on a playoff team, you weren't really considered but that started to change the more the numbers started to be better understood.  If you want to see how arbitrary some of the awards are check out baseball-reference.com and look compare the award winners season to season.   

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4 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I prefer the 2014 version of Trout over the last two seasons. He put the ball in play more often and good things happened on the field ... which led to his first MVP.

Mickey was right ... walks are overrated imo

Troll me if you like I don’t give a hoot

Nah, you are already expert at trolling yourself you save us the effort...

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Just now, mulwin444 said:

Well, if there is one thing that is consistent it's no group of sports writers can seem to agree on what's a proper criteria for these awards.  In the past, usually if you weren't on a playoff team, you weren't really considered but that started to change the more the numbers started to be better understood.  If you want to see how arbitrary some of the awards are check out baseball-reference.com and look compare the award winners season to season.   

Of course i just think this season is a bit more unusual.  Most of the "front runners" arent on playoff teams, and those who are have much more support around them. 

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6 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I prefer the 2014 version of Trout over the last two seasons. He put the ball in play more often and good things happened on the field ... which led to his first MVP.

Mickey was right ... walks are overrated imo

Troll me if you like I don’t give a hoot

Ill bite

The fact that hes walking more is much more due to the fact that teams re pitching around him more as we simply havent had enough weapons and they have given up trying to get over on him. 

The fact that hes done what he has within that confine is perhaps even more impressive. 

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Just now, floplag said:

Of course i just think this season is a bit more unusual.  Most of the "front runners" arent on playoff teams, and those who are have much more support around them. 

Yeah, definitely more gray areas...also, in the past, when writers relied more heavily on just AVG, HR, and RBI, it was easier pick someone with a good season on a playoff team but, with the scrutiny of advanced metrics, more options emerge. 

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22 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I prefer the 2014 version of Trout over the last two seasons. He put the ball in play more often and good things happened on the field ... which led to his first MVP.

Mickey was right ... walks are overrated imo

Troll me if you like I don’t give a hoot

In 2014 Trout had the lowest average, OPS, OPS+, OBP, and the most strikeouts of any full season he's played, so by all accounts he put the ball in play less often than in his other seasons. But you're not even smart enough to look that up, so great unintentional troll job. This season he's been unequivocally better than in 2014. 

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5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Ill bite

The fact that hes walking more is much more due to the fact that teams re pitching around him more as we simply havent had enough weapons and they have given up trying to get over on him. 

The fact that hes done what he has within that confine is perhaps even more impressive. 

His strikeouts are way down simply because he’s been more patient at the plate. Power hitters traditionally get pitched around no matter the lineup. Upton is a legit bat batting behind him . 

I wouldn’t mind him striking out more often if it means more contact as a result. In 2014 his OPS and batting Average suffered a little but his production was greater .... HR’s/Doubles/Runs/RBIs. 

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12 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

In 2014 Trout had the lowest average, OPS, OPS+, OBP, and the most strikeouts of any full season he's played, so by all accounts he put the ball in play less often than in his other seasons. But you're not even smart enough to look that up, so great unintentional troll job. This season he's been unequivocally better than in 2014. 

Actually I did look ? it up ... yes, he’s unequivocally better at walking which is reflected in his OPS/OBP/OPS+

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32 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Well, if there is one thing that is consistent it's no group of sports writers can seem to agree on what's a proper criteria for these awards.  In the past, usually if you weren't on a playoff team, you weren't really considered but that started to change the more the numbers started to be better understood.  If you want to see how arbitrary some of the awards are check out baseball-reference.com and look compare the award winners season to season.   

You’re also talking about just 30 voters, who change all the time. 

Swap out a few different people and it’s pretty easy to swing the results. 

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44 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I prefer the 2014 version of Trout over the last two seasons. He put the ball in play more often and good things happened on the field ... which led to his first MVP.

Mickey was right ... walks are overrated imo

Troll me if you like I don’t give a hoot

This is a good post.

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Trout ain't the MVP no matter how you slice it. Trout has a lower WAR than Betts and he is 20 plus games out of first place while Betts plays for the best team in baseball, with the best record. The only reason you are arguing this is because you are an Angels homer and not a realist. If Trout had the same numbers Betts has and the Angels had the same record the Sox do while Betts was doing what Trout was doing on similar team as the Angels in the East with a shit record there is no way you would be arguing for Betts right now.

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11 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

His strikeouts are way down simply because he’s been more patient at the plate. Power hitters traditionally get pitched around no matter the lineup. Upton is a legit bat batting behind him . 

I wouldn’t mind him striking out more often if it means more contact as a result. In 2014 his OPS and batting Average suffered a little but his production was greater .... HR’s/Doubles/Runs/RBIs. 

Can't drive in runs with no RISP, and when there were and 1B was open they IBB walk him. Actually he has more HR this year than in 2014 with 139+ fewer AB. He's 3 HR short of his career best in 2015.

His BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ are all at all time highs. His WAR is 10.1 after missing 1 month of season and with 3 games to go. His career high is 10.5 so he could still match that yet this season.

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