Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

IGNORED

Spending this off-season


Stradling

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

My guess is the Angels will look quite different in 2019.  It's time for them to compete, but at the same time they'll be severely limited in what they do. 

- Do you keep Albert at first base, knowing full well that he's actually harming your offense?  Cutting him could alienate a large contingent of this baseball team and be a bit of a slap in the face to one of the all -time greats. 

- Do you bring Cozart back into a starting role, despite the fact that he has not played like a starter at all since arriving, and really hasn't been a starting caliber player at any point in his career besides one year?  If you do move him to utility, do you move Fletcher down to the minors? 

- Calhoun has been a staple in this organization for  along time, but the inconsistencies are killing the offense.  But he's also very close with Trout and part of the fabric of the organization.  Do you replace him? 

The Angels aren't a particularly aggressive organization when it comes to veterans.  They keep them around and in feature roles, even when they're struggling.  I would blame it on the GM, but we've had so many GM's do the same thing by now that either the owner keeps hiring GM's with the same values, or it's simply Scioscia.  So chances are, Albert Pujols will still be the starting first baseman.  Also, chances are, Zack Cozart is either going to be the starting second baseman, or third baseman.  And chances are, Kole Calhoun is still going to be the starting RF. 

So really, the only openings on the position player side of things are going to be at 3B or 2B, (assuming Fletcher moves into a utility role) and catcher. 

My guess is they pull off a trade with Cincinnati and acquire Scooter Gennett to play 2B, and Tucker Barnhart to play catcher, which adds probably 15 million onto the payroll.  That trade probably requires Brandon Marsh, Jesus Castillo, Jose Soriano and a lottery ticket like Luis Pena.  With the remaining 15 million, I think he'll go after a former target of his with the Yankees, Nathan Eovoladi.  And the bullpen?  I'm guessing Eppler stays put and doesn't spend anything else other than maybe a rule 5 pick on someone.  He has J.C. Ramirez, Alex Meyer and Key Middleton all coming back at some point early next season, and will need a place to put them all.  Plus the development of Buttrey and Robles gives the Angels depth that didn't exist before. 

So this puts the lineup as: SS Simmons, 2B Gennett, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, 3B Cozart, RF Calhoun, C Barnhart.

Bench probably is Arcia, Fletcher, Fernandez and whoever our fourth outfielder is.  Hermosillo maybe. 

Rotation would be: Skaggs, Heaney, Eovaldi, Barria, Shoemaker with Pena as a long reliever and Canning and Suarez in AAA.  Not sure where Tropeano goes in this.  Does he have options?

Bullpen: Buttrey, Parker, Anderson, Alvarez, Ramirez, Meyer, Pena

If their luck is neutral, I'd say that's a solid 85 win team. 

I really like Gennett, i'm just not sure he puts them over the top. Based on your 85 win projection, that probably doesn't even get them into the playoffs. With that, why would they trade the prospects for essentially the same position they are in this year? I think they have to go bigger or it will be another year of development for the kids with a few veterans to fill in the gaps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I really like Gennett, i'm just not sure he puts them over the top. Based on your 85 win projection, that probably doesn't even get them into the playoffs. With that, why would they trade the prospects for essentially the same position they are in this year? I think they have to go bigger or it will be another year of development for the kids with a few veterans to fill in the gaps.

They'd do it because they'd think it would be the sort of move that gets them over the top, just like the Justin Upton trade, just like signing Shohei Ohtani, and every other move they make.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

They'd do it because they'd think it would be the sort of move that gets them over the top, just like the Justin Upton trade, just like signing Shohei Ohtani, and every other move they make.  

This last offseason was thought to bring much more fruitful results. At this point that has shown to be not remotely close to what would be necessary to break down the door to the division let alone wild card. I don't believe they make a singular move. I think they either go big or plug and play while waiting out the kids. I don't honestly think there is an in between.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

This last offseason was thought to bring much more fruitful results. At this point that has shown to be not remotely close to what would be necessary to break down the door to the division let alone wild card. I don't believe they make a singular move. I think they either go big or plug and play while waiting out the kids. I don't honestly think there is an in between.

I'd really enjoy seeing what you think would happen.  Seriously, that's what's best for the club.  But when you have Albert Pujols and Zack Cozart being paid as much as they are being paid, and starting, it severely limits what you can and can't do, both monetarily and in vacancies. 

Because of Pujols, Cozart and Calhoun, I think the Angels are forced into an "in between" scenario. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's too bad Matt Thaiss isn't looking like another Matt (A'th 24 year-old 1B Olson and his near .800 OPS).   That would open up the money to be paid to a solid #2-3 starting pitcher and a catching upgrade.   Between Cozart (assuming last season was due to "coming to AL" adjustment) and Fletcher/Rengifo, 3B and 2B are covered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I'd really enjoy seeing what you think would happen.  Seriously, that's what's best for the club.  But when you have Albert Pujols and Zack Cozart being paid as much as they are being paid, and starting, it severely limits what you can and can't do, both monetarily and in vacancies. 

Because of Pujols, Cozart and Calhoun, I think the Angels are forced into an "in between" scenario. 

It's really Pujols, as Cozart only has some $25 million due him through 2020 and Calhoun is only due another season plus a buyout.

Pujols, Arte's scarlet letter 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

My guess is the Angels will look quite different in 2019.  It's time for them to compete, but at the same time they'll be severely limited in what they do. 

- Do you keep Albert at first base, knowing full well that he's actually harming your offense?  Cutting him could alienate a large contingent of this baseball team and be a bit of a slap in the face to one of the all -time greats. 

- Do you bring Cozart back into a starting role, despite the fact that he has not played like a starter at all since arriving, and really hasn't been a starting caliber player at any point in his career besides one year?  If you do move him to utility, do you move Fletcher down to the minors? 

- Calhoun has been a staple in this organization for  along time, but the inconsistencies are killing the offense.  But he's also very close with Trout and part of the fabric of the organization.  Do you replace him? 

The Angels aren't a particularly aggressive organization when it comes to veterans.  They keep them around and in feature roles, even when they're struggling.  I would blame it on the GM, but we've had so many GM's do the same thing by now that either the owner keeps hiring GM's with the same values, or it's simply Scioscia.  So chances are, Albert Pujols will still be the starting first baseman.  Also, chances are, Zack Cozart is either going to be the starting second baseman, or third baseman.  And chances are, Kole Calhoun is still going to be the starting RF. 

So really, the only openings on the position player side of things are going to be at 3B or 2B, (assuming Fletcher moves into a utility role) and catcher. 

My guess is they pull off a trade with Cincinnati and acquire Scooter Gennett to play 2B, and Tucker Barnhart to play catcher, which adds probably 15 million onto the payroll.  That trade probably requires Brandon Marsh, Jesus Castillo, Jose Soriano and a lottery ticket like Luis Pena.  With the remaining 15 million, I think he'll go after a former target of his with the Yankees, Nathan Eovoladi.  And the bullpen?  I'm guessing Eppler stays put and doesn't spend anything else other than maybe a rule 5 pick on someone.  He has J.C. Ramirez, Alex Meyer and Key Middleton all coming back at some point early next season, and will need a place to put them all.  Plus the development of Buttrey and Robles gives the Angels depth that didn't exist before. 

So this puts the lineup as: SS Simmons, 2B Gennett, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, 3B Cozart, RF Calhoun, C Barnhart.

Bench probably is Arcia, Fletcher, Fernandez and whoever our fourth outfielder is.  Hermosillo maybe. 

Rotation would be: Skaggs, Heaney, Eovaldi, Barria, Shoemaker with Pena as a long reliever and Canning and Suarez in AAA.  Not sure where Tropeano goes in this.  Does he have options?

Bullpen: Buttrey, Parker, Anderson, Alvarez, Ramirez, Meyer, Pena

If their luck is neutral, I'd say that's a solid 85 win team. 

85 wins is a 3rd place team and doesn’t sniff the playoffs. Also that is if everything goes right. Which we know there will be injuries. It’s a long season. So 75-80 win season and a 3rd or 4th place finish. Gross. I’d really like it for Trout to be in a good line up for once in his career and play for an organization which wants to win. In your projection the Angels just would rather be mediocre then compete for titles. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It's too bad Matt Thaiss isn't looking like another Matt (A'th 24 year-old 1B Olson and his near .800 OPS).   That would open up the money to be paid to a solid #2-3 starting pitcher and a catching upgrade.   Between Cozart (assuming last season was due to "coming to AL" adjustment) and Fletcher/Rengifo, 3B and 2B are covered.

Cozart was good for one year got paid and is meh again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before they could at least somewhat sell (to the fans and to themselves) that Pujols should be a mainstay in the lineup plan.

Production problems aside, it is beyond ridiculous to take that position now simply from a health standpoint.

No rational person anywhere would count on Pujols for even 110 games.

You just can't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Kevinb said:

They are 20 plus games out of first. They are miles away 

Dude we get it.  So would you look at the Mariners and say they are closer to competing than we are next year?  There is a reason there are predictive stats.  If we improve in run differential we will probably improve in the standings.  More years than not the teams that excel in that area are in the playoffs.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the plug & play philosophy has been the problem. We need to go big or go home. The issue has been the durability of our pitchers. It's been a problem for, what, five years now?

We need to find ourselves a reliable top of the rotation arm. Yes, getting a player for every 5 days seems like it doesn't do anything. But it also gives the bullpen a break. Some of the problems we've had with bullpen (including injuries) is because they've been overworked. Maybe, just maybe, having one horse who can be counted on will help in the other 4 games.

Trade for deGrom (or trade for/sign someone similar).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

My guess is the Angels will look quite different in 2019.  It's time for them to compete, but at the same time they'll be severely limited in what they do. 

- Do you keep Albert at first base, knowing full well that he's actually harming your offense?  Cutting him could alienate a large contingent of this baseball team and be a bit of a slap in the face to one of the all -time greats. 

- Do you bring Cozart back into a starting role, despite the fact that he has not played like a starter at all since arriving, and really hasn't been a starting caliber player at any point in his career besides one year?  If you do move him to utility, do you move Fletcher down to the minors? 

- Calhoun has been a staple in this organization for  along time, but the inconsistencies are killing the offense.  But he's also very close with Trout and part of the fabric of the organization.  Do you replace him? 

The Angels aren't a particularly aggressive organization when it comes to veterans.  They keep them around and in feature roles, even when they're struggling.  I would blame it on the GM, but we've had so many GM's do the same thing by now that either the owner keeps hiring GM's with the same values, or it's simply Scioscia.  So chances are, Albert Pujols will still be the starting first baseman.  Also, chances are, Zack Cozart is either going to be the starting second baseman, or third baseman.  And chances are, Kole Calhoun is still going to be the starting RF. 

So really, the only openings on the position player side of things are going to be at 3B or 2B, (assuming Fletcher moves into a utility role) and catcher. 

My guess is they pull off a trade with Cincinnati and acquire Scooter Gennett to play 2B, and Tucker Barnhart to play catcher, which adds probably 15 million onto the payroll.  That trade probably requires Brandon Marsh, Jesus Castillo, Jose Soriano and a lottery ticket like Luis Pena.  With the remaining 15 million, I think he'll go after a former target of his with the Yankees, Nathan Eovoladi.  And the bullpen?  I'm guessing Eppler stays put and doesn't spend anything else other than maybe a rule 5 pick on someone.  He has J.C. Ramirez, Alex Meyer and Key Middleton all coming back at some point early next season, and will need a place to put them all.  Plus the development of Buttrey and Robles gives the Angels depth that didn't exist before. 

So this puts the lineup as: SS Simmons, 2B Gennett, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, 3B Cozart, RF Calhoun, C Barnhart.

Bench probably is Arcia, Fletcher, Fernandez and whoever our fourth outfielder is.  Hermosillo maybe. 

Rotation would be: Skaggs, Heaney, Eovaldi, Barria, Shoemaker with Pena as a long reliever and Canning and Suarez in AAA.  Not sure where Tropeano goes in this.  Does he have options?

Bullpen: Buttrey, Parker, Anderson, Alvarez, Ramirez, Meyer, Pena

If their luck is neutral, I'd say that's a solid 85 win team. 

I'm a firm believer that no player should lose a starting job to injury in any sport, it encouraged people to do stupid things if they think its at risk in that regard. 
Going into ST Cozart should be considered the starter, the real question is where, and the answer will depend on off season moves.

At this point assuming we dont do anything significant at 3B, he is the likely starter there with Fletcher at 2B.  If we do get a 3B upgrade then he would open ST as #1 on the depth chart at 2B and how they play in ST will determine who comes out of it as such, and i suspect in the end that will be Fletcher with Cozart either traded or playing the super utility role. 

As for the rest, no offense but thats not good enough.  Adding Gennett and Barhart doesnt top Hou.  If thats all they plan to do they might as well save the money.  Thats a plan for the future roster not one that plans to win.  

This is where i get frustrated, so man y people seem so willing to simply skip 2019, one of 2 years we have left with the best player on the planet, if this is the best we can do then trade him and rebuild. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Dude we get it.  So would you look at the Mariners and say they are closer to competing than we are next year?  There is a reason there are predictive stats.  If we improve in run differential we will probably improve in the standings.  More years than not the teams that excel in that area are in the playoffs.  

I don't know maybe you do maybe you don't saying were not far off is just plain wrong. We are far off. This team isn't anywhere close to competing with Houston New York or Boston. If the whole point of playing is to compete to win a championship we aren't in the ball park. If you are ok settling for maybe a second wild card then sweet. Settle be my guest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

The first step is the WC game, then eventually getting to the ALCS, and hopefully down the road back to the WS.

First step is at least making it to the WC game in 2019.   Then in the 2020s, the push towards perennial post-season participation like the 2000s.

Do you know how much better this team has to be just to be in the conversation of 2nd wild card? We are 16 games out of the second wild card spot.16!!!! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I don't know maybe you do maybe you don't saying were not far off is just plain wrong. We are far off. This team isn't anywhere close to competing with Houston New York or Boston. If the whole point of playing is to compete to win a championship we aren't in the ball park. If you are ok settling for maybe a second wild card then sweet. Settle be my guest.

Being a fan of the Angels is not easy.  If it was easy, every douche bag across the country would be on the Angels' band wagon.

Here is a link to an alternative you might find inviting:

https://www.mlb.com/redsox/fans/red-sox-nation

You should have been around in the 70's, or the 80's. Talk about frustration and heart ache.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...