Now that Tyler Skaggs is still going to be out a while longer

[Angel Oracle]

How much more patience should be shown for his high injury incidence?

What is the usual return time from his current injury, for which he's missed a month so far?  

After returning from TJS at the beginning of the 2016 season, he's only pitched 304 1/3 innings over pretty much 3 seasons.

[totdprods]

Super frustrating. I don't think the Angels can afford to not count on him for next year's rotation. 

Does make you wonder if they could flip him to Philly for Cesar Hernandez* and Andrew Knapp, take care of 2B and C, and then sign Corbin or Keuchel to replace Skagg's LHP innings. 

*Fletcher has more WAR (1.9) than Cesar (1.7) according to BBREF. Cesar has a 95 OPS+, Fletcher 91 OPS+.

[DMVol]

23 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don't think the Angels can afford to not count on him for next year's rotation.....

^^^^^This ^^^^^

[Angel Oracle]

Does he simply not have the body that can stand up to even 160+ innings a season?

[Inside Pitch]

You got to give him props -- he's at least moved from elbow, to oblique, to abductor strain.   He's a strained calf and a plantar injury away from having worked his way all the way down.

[Lou]

turf toe = career over 

[ettin]

I am not terribly concerned. Innings pitched was an issue I pointed out in the Primer Series last year and both Skaggs and Heaney are at a really high amount so having an "injury" that is non-elbow related doesn't bother me.

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, ettin said:

I am not terribly concerned. Innings pitched was an issue I pointed out in the Primer Series last year and both Skaggs and Heaney are at a really high amount so having an "injury" that is non-elbow related doesn't bother me.

Heaney is (approaching 170 innings), and maybe they should limit his pitch count in his remaining 3 starts. 

But Skaggs has only pitched 116 innings so far, which has been a recurring theme since returning from TJS almost 3 seasons ago. 

[Dtwncbad]

The Angel plan this year to go to a 6 man rotation with all the back of the rotation starters available didn't quite work.

2019 will have no Richards and no Ohtani.

So let's just double down.  How about an 8 man rotation of #4 starters for 2019?

Who is pumped?

[ettin]

22 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Heaney is (approaching 170 innings), and maybe they should limit his pitch count in his remaining 3 starts. 

But Skaggs has only pitched 116 innings so far, which has been a recurring theme since returning from TJS almost 3 seasons ago. 

I am surprised that Heaney is that high by the way. Seems really unnecessary at this juncture. Skaggs' innings are about what I was expecting overall for the two of them and Andrew has blown by that number.

[Chuck]

So what does the rotation look like next year barring there's no trades or FA signings? 

Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Pena, Barria and maybe one of Suarez or Canning? 

While not bad on paper, I would like to see us acquire a true frontline starter. 

I would trade Skaggs & Canning for deGrom.

[Angel Oracle]

As expected, the rotation will still be a work in progress in 2019, following a couple of 2018 success stories in Heaney and Barria.

Ohtani of course will likely be out from pitching until ST 2020, Skaggs is still a health question mark going forward, Shoe has pitched very limited innings the past 2 seasons and thus should be on an innings limit, Tropeano should probably be converted to relief, and Pena is still (for a whole season) a question mark although pitching solidly in 2018.   

[wopphil]

48 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

While not bad on paper, I would like to see us acquire a true frontline starter. 

I'd be shocked if Eppler didn't make an aggressive run at Corbin or Keuchel.

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I'd be shocked if Eppler didn't make an aggressive run at Corbin or Keuchel.

I would. Eppler hasn't spent basically a penny in pitching since he got here. He seems succinctly aware of the injury/sunk cost risk. He didn't even buy low on any pitcher last year - not even a reliever - despite the need for at least some depth. 

I can't see him signing either. A one-year vet or bounceback, sure, but I honestly think he'd trade Adell for deGrom before signing a pitcher for $75-90m. 

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

So what does the rotation look like next year barring there's no trades or FA signings? 

Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Pena, Barria and maybe one of Suarez or Canning? 

While not bad on paper, I would like to see us acquire a true frontline starter. 

I would trade Skaggs & Canning for deGrom.

May I fix this?

1).________, 2)._________, 3). Heaney, 4). Skaggs, 5). Barria.

With Canning waiting in the wings to help.

Shoemaker needs to be a high inning eater bullpen piece and emergency spot starter.

I am only interested in plans to actually win.

 

[mtangelsfan]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

May I fix this?

1).________, 2)._________, 3). Heaney, 4). Skaggs, 5). Barria.

With Canning waiting in the wings to help.

Shoemaker needs to be a high inning eater bullpen piece and emergency spot starter.

I am only interested in plans to actually win.

 

Prepare to be disappointed in your own mind then.  They aren't getting two front line starters.  

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Prepare to be disappointed in your own mind then.  They aren't getting two front line starters.  

Then they will repeat 2018 and lose my interest by late June, and waste another year of Trout.  Great plan.

But hey, think of all the money they can save, right?  Maybe they can market that cool detail to the fan base and sell tickets, hats, and t-shirts on that exciting storyline.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Then they will repeat 2018 and lose my interest by late June, and waste another year of Trout.  Great plan.

But hey, think of all the money they can save, right?  Maybe they can market that cool detail to the fan base and sell tickets, hats, and t-shirts on that exciting storyline.

[HaloNArizona]

22 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

May I fix this?

1).________, 2)._________, 3). Heaney, 4). Skaggs, 5). Barria.

With Canning waiting in the wings to help.

Shoemaker needs to be a high inning eater bullpen piece and emergency spot starter.

I am only interested in plans to actually win.

 

I see us acquiring one front line starter....I think the club views Heaney as a top tier pitcher (they way he pitched last night will be the point they use).  I also think Shoemaker if healthy, it appears that is now the case), is a solid #3 pitcher.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

Skaggs is probably throwing a simulated game this week and starting the last couple weeks of the season. 

I think he took this one slow because there was no reason to rush back and risk hurting his arm. He rushed back the first two times. 

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Then they will repeat 2018 and lose my interest by late June, and waste another year of Trout.  Great plan.

But hey, think of all the money they can save, right?  Maybe they can market that cool detail to the fan base and sell tickets, hats, and t-shirts on that exciting storyline.

You are the equivalent of all or nothing.  They aren’t signing a 1 and a 2 and because of that you will not be interested.  So lets see, this off season you want then to sign or trade for a 1 and a 2 and sign Machado.  Anything else?  

[Angel Oracle]

23 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Skaggs is probably throwing a simulated game this week and starting the last couple weeks of the season. 

I think he took this one slow because there was no reason to rush back and risk hurting his arm. He rushed back the first two times. 

That does make sense.   I hope he can get in another 15-18 innings to close out the season.   Then he could hopefully get to at least 162 innings in 2019.

[Dtwncbad]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You are the equivalent of all or nothing.  They aren’t signing a 1 and a 2 and because of that you will not be interested.  So lets see, this off season you want then to sign or trade for a 1 and a 2 and sign Machado.  Anything else?  

Let's be very real.  I fully understand the Angels are not adding a #1 and a #2 and signing Manny Machado.

But that doesn't mean they should deviate from an offseason that aggressively accomplishes as close to that as possible.

The point is 2019 should not be a throw away or transition year when you CAN easily argue that the team is only maybe two significant players away from being one hell of a team.

I would be very happy if they acquired ONE pitcher to slot on front if Heaney and Skaggs and significantly improved one offensive spot in the lineup.

I do very much like the big move of Machado because he is very good and very young and it is only money (compared to the price in prospects to acquire that kind of impact palyer).

I am not even a specific fan of Machado himself.  He is just young and good and a cash only purchase.

If I had a 57 Chevy that needs interior work and paint for the upcoming car show, and I want to win the car show, and I have the resources to get an interior and paint. . . Then I do it.  I don't wait and see if maybe in a year or so ther might be an easier way to get an interior and paint for car shows in 2020 or 2021.

I think the Angels are in a very unique situation the way the roster is constructed now.  This team could be excellent (not just "competitive") and when you have a pile of money available and you can be excellent, I think a big market team in a major market with the best player in baseball in his prime should commit to being excellent.

2019, to me, looks like a year in the historical timeline of the Angels that they should be bold.  Be smart but be bold.

This is not the Royals or Twins.

[Dtwncbad]

To all the fans with the mindset of  "2019 will be a transition year and stay the course with the youth development" . . .

Stay the course until what exactly?

Until the Angels have enough established talent on the major league roster that they are just a couple of players away? (Uh, that is now.)

Until there is enough minor league prospect capital in your system that you can feel reasonably secure that your own system will be able to fill holes going forward over the next five years?  (Uh, that is now.)

 

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

To all the fans with the mindset of  "2019 will be a transition year and stay the course with the youth development" . . .

Stay the course until what exactly?

Until the Angels have enough established talent on the major league roster that they are just a couple of players away? (Uh, that is now.)

Until there is enough minor league prospect capital in your system that you can feel reasonably secure that your own system will be able to fill holes going forward over the next five years?  (Uh, that is now.)

1) were almost a whole rotation, a half offense, and maybe a pen away

2) the farm has come along but is far from deep enough to live off to supply the team and trade for other players.