If you could pass one law..............

[HaloMagic]

Some people have lost their health insurance and/or their jobs and you're crying because you have to pay 13.5% toward your retirement and higher medical expenses. Welcome to the real world, a place you have no concept of. Unions these days love painting themselves as victims -- totally oblivious to the world around them.

You have no clue how good your retirement package is, even if you're forced to pay more into it. Why not share the details since it's a matter of public record anyway?

This mp guy seems like a chill dude. I like how he doesn't take things personally or resort to personal attacks.

[mp170.6]

This mp guy seems like a chill dude. I like how he doesn't take things personally or resort to personal attacks.

 

I didn't mean to sound so personal.  I just get frustrated when people buy into whatever lies and propaganda their labor union tells them.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Some people have lost their health insurance and/or their jobs and you're crying because you have to pay 13.5% toward your retirement and higher medical expenses.  Welcome to the real world, a place you have no concept of.  Unions these days love painting themselves as victims -- totally oblivious to the world around them.

 

You have no clue how good your retirement package is, even if you're forced to pay more into it.  Why not share the details since it's a matter of public record anyway?

 

If you call stating facts crying, then I suppose so. You're the one calling me a victim. You just asked me to define what is going on, and I did. I am fully aware that there are many people out there worse off than me. BTW, our union is a union in name only. State employees in Nevada do not have collective bargaining rights or most of the other things that make you hate unions so much.

[mp170.6]

If you call stating facts crying, then I suppose so. You're the one calling me a victim. You just asked me to define what is going on, and I did. I am fully aware that there are many people out there worse off than me. BTW, our union is a union in name only. State employees in Nevada do not have collective bargaining rights or most of the other things that make you hate unions so much.

 

I was suggesting you share the details of your retirement package. 

 

The funny thing about government employees who complain about their benefits is that they hardly ever quit and find a job someplace else.  That goes to show how good the retirement is for public sector employees. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

In my case, it goes to show that at nearly 60 years of age, I don't plan to start over somewhere else. I also don't recall complaining about the benefits, just stating that I'm now paying twice as much for about two thirds of the coverage I had four years ago. It is what it is, and I understand why it happened. Nevada led the nation in unemployment percentage for a good part of the past two years.

 

My first state pension, for 17 years of service in Oklahoma, pays me about $5K per year. I started taking it before I had planned in order to offset the salary reduction that was imposed four years ago, since mine is a single income family.

[mtangelsfan]

It's always interesting the paths that threads take.  I didn't figure this thread would end up being a debate about unions, but that's cool.  

[saangels]

The individual should have the right to accept his/her own terms of employment. Two parties should have the freedom to come to an agreement on terms of trade. The labor force only concedes power to the employer when it agrees to terms below their worth. Would that happen? Maybe. There are a lot of stupid people out there.

You're absolutely correct, Adam: there are a lot of stupid people out there.  Not only that, there are a lot of people with averge intelligence, who simply need to feed their families.  Consequently, as a result, I think the employer has the upperhand.  If history and human nature are any indication, these people in power will most likely abuse their power.  See Belgium, the "capitalist paradise" of yore.  No regulations.  Middle class destroyed.  

 

In theory, I have no problem with anything you said.  Unfortunately, whether it's big business, big government or big labor, the common element is big power, and big power is almost always abused.  Even if a business owner has a good conscience, he must exploit the laborer in a free market in order to compete.  How else will he keep his prices low?  If you pay your workers more, more value is being transferred to the product which must be absorbed by the consumer.  If business owner A tries to be a good guy, and pay his workers a fair rate, and business owner B, selling the same product, is hiring a bunch of illegal immigrants at $5 an hour, before long, business owner A is going to go out of business.  So I think there should be some regulation of the market.  The only question is: how much, and in what capacity?  I, personally, don't really know how I feel about the minimum wage.  But I do know that, if there is going to be a minimum wage, it should probably be above the poverty line.    

[Adam]

I have a hard time with any policy that takes away an individual's right to negotiate his own terms, regardless of the purpose behind it.  Our business is built around IC law, so I get to deal with regulatory bodies in a lot of different states. Leads me to hate the government and love my job more and more.

[mp170.6]

In my case, it goes to show that at nearly 60 years of age, I don't plan to start over somewhere else. I also don't recall complaining about the benefits, just stating that I'm now paying twice as much for about two thirds of the coverage I had four years ago. It is what it is, and I understand why it happened. Nevada led the nation in unemployment percentage for a good part of the past two years.

 

My first state pension, for 17 years of service in Oklahoma, pays me about $5K per year. I started taking it before I had planned in order to offset the salary reduction that was imposed four years ago, since mine is a single income family.

 

Not sure how many years you have working for the State of Nevada -- or when you plan to retire -- but I hope you appreciate how wonderful it is to have a defined benefit pension with a 2.5% or 2.67% multiplier for every year of service applied to your highest wages prior to retirement. 

 

And how wonderful it is when the retirement ages are so low.  Where else besides government can you retire at any age with thirty years of service?  Where else can you retire at 60 with just ten years of service?  Where else can you purchase years of service time to boost your retirement payout?

 

You have it good for so many reasons.  The cost of living in Nevada is 30-40% cheaper than Orange County.  If you didn't have your pension, Social Security pays an average of $1266/month with a maximum of $2533/month (starting at age 66) if you earned six figures during your career.

 

Ten years of service with the State of Nevada based on $60,000 salary pays MORE than the average Social Security payout. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Ten years of service with the State of Nevada based on $60,000 salary pays MORE than the average Social Security payout. 

 

There's a ringing endorsement. Wonder what I'm going to do with all those chalets all over the world.

[mp170.6]

There's a ringing endorsement. Wonder what I'm going to do with all those chalets all over the world.

 

You don't seem very happy that I spilled the beans. 

[HaloMagic]

You would hope it pays more, or at least as much. Otherwise WTF.

[mp170.6]

You would hope it pays more, or at least as much. Otherwise WTF.

 

Did you read what I wrote? 

 

Most people collecting their $1266/month in Social Security paid into the system for 40 years or more.  State of Nevada employees can retire much earlier (age 60) after paying in for just 10 years with a fairly modest $60,000 salary and still receive more than the average Social Security recipient does. 

 

 

 

As I said before, Las Vegas is 30% to 40% cheaper than living in Orange County. 

 

Mod edit, I think it would be wise to refrain from stating or guessing what somebody on this forum makes.  If they want to make that public, that is up to them.

[arch stanton]

Do you not think what he does is worth making a good living? Quality doesn't come cheap. And when you talk about cost of living in Orange County, how braod is your brush? Are we talking Newport? Santa Ana? And what difference does that make to him anyway?

[halobob]

Repeal all taxes except sales tax. Investing and saving should not be penalized. I believe consumption is where the government should gain its revenue from.

I agree completely.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Mod edit, I think it would be wise to refrain from stating or guessing what somebody on this forum makes.  If they want to make that public, that is up to them.

 

My thanks to the mods. Some people can't enter into a discussion without getting personal. Guess someone else has joined my list of people never to talk to.

[mp170.6]

My thanks to the mods. Some people can't enter into a discussion without getting personal. Guess someone else has joined my list of people never to talk to.

 

You were the one who volunteered your personal details and complained how terrible it was.  I was simply replying to the points you raised. 

 

Besides, your exact salary is public record anyway. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

You were the one who volunteered your personal details and complained how terrible it was.  I was simply replying to the points you raised. 

 

Wrong again. Stating the percentage I pay into retirement (which is the same for every state employee) and what has generally happened to our benefits package is hardly "volunteering personal data". That was general information, since you apparently don't know the difference, and you somehow took it as an invitation to attempt to reveal my personal information. 

 

Some people cannot tell the difference between stating facts and complaining. You are apparently one of them.

 

Whatever may or may not be public record, posting it on a baseball board is out of line. Glad that the mods agreed. Of course, this all presumes that you are correct about my identity to begin with.

[mtangelsfan]

Ok, lets drop this direction now.  Move on folks.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Gladly.

[arch stanton]

This leads to a question that I've always had. Why do so many people feel that public sector employees should take a vow of poverty and be grateful for the privilege? Do you not want highly qualified teachers? Wouldn't you prefer to deal with competent people when you get a driver license or apply for a permit? 

 

I realize there are far too many government employees but I would rather see the numbers cut down and the ones remaining well compensated.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Thanks, Arch. Well stated.

[mp170.6]

This leads to a question that I've always had. Why do so many people feel that public sector employees should take a vow of poverty and be grateful for the privilege? Do you not want highly qualified teachers? Wouldn't you prefer to deal with competent people when you get a driver license or apply for a permit? 

 

I realize there are far too many government employees but I would rather see the numbers cut down and the ones remaining well compensated.

 

There's no correlation between higher salaries and better performance.  Look how many corrupt teachers they have in LAUSD making close to six figures.

[HaloMagic]

There is a correlation between higher salaries and the expectation of better performance, though. And those expectations are typically generated from evaluating past performance, which is one of the few things that does correlate to future performance.

[arch stanton]

There's no correlation between higher salaries and better performance.  Look how many corrupt teachers they have in LAUSD making close to six figures.

The correlation is between higher salaries and competent people applying for the job and wanting to stick around.