Is Scioscia gone after this season?

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Cannot a manager become stale to a fan base after 19 seasons, especially when the team will have made just one post-season trip from 2010-2018?   Granted, that is moreso on Moreno, Reagins, Dipoto, and Daniels.

And what does becoming stale to a fan base have to do with anything?  

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Have you given any thought to the concept that the Angels young players may not be any good?

They did have the worst farm system in baseball for a few years. 

It is now generally rated in the middle of the pack, and improving.

Point taken though, as far as the past few seasons before this one.

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And what does becoming stale to a fan base have to do with anything?  

It is partly why some on here, myself included, are frustrated with him, hearing the same things and seeing the same things for 19 years.

[mulwin444]

23 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Have you given any thought to the concept that the Angels young players may not be any good?

They did have the worst farm system in baseball for a few years. 

Cowart is a given but what has the word been on Ward?  The guy walks a ton, has some speed and some pop.  I can understand how the PCL can inflate numbers but he was doing the same thing at Mobile.  Or Jose Miguel Fernandez...Rengifo?  There seems to be some talent that was not there when Dipoto emptied our farm for guys like Vinnie Pestano 

[Glen]

25 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Have you given any thought to the concept that the Angels young players may not be any good?

They did have the worst farm system in baseball for a few years. 

That's a cold, depressing slap of reality that I'd prefer to ignore.

[Homebrewer]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Have you given any thought to the concept that the Angels young players may not be any good?

They did have the worst farm system in baseball for a few years. 

I've given that plenty of thought and have been well aware of all the options (and granted, sometimes lack thereof) I'm not a newbie to the game or the Halos. I've been following both closely since the 60's.

Scioscia will use his pets (Valbuena is just another one in a long list) no matter what else is available, often until they are taken away from him. This has been discussed here, and on other boards before this one, ad-nauseam.  

Not all mangers are the same...no matter how many times people around here want to expound that narrative, it's false, and frankly an excuse for being unable to face making a change.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

Cowart is a given but what has the word been on Ward?  The guy walks a ton, has some speed and some pop.  I can understand how the PCL can inflate numbers but he was doing the same thing at Mobile.  Or Jose Miguel Fernandez...Rengifo?  There seems to be some talent that was not there when Dipoto emptied our farm for guys like Vinnie Pestano 

I asked Eppler about Ward on Tuesday. I assume you read my story.  He said he’s not ready defensively. Rengifo just got to AAA a month ago. They aren’t going to rush guys to the majors. 

Here’s a secret....

The root of all the Angels problems is they ignored the farm system from about 2010-2015. That’s resulted in them being unable to produce any young players who were good enough to be everyday major leaguers. So they kept recycling 30+ year old major leaguers on the decline. 

Its not Scioscia. It’s the personnel. You shouldn’t need me to tell you this. 

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I asked Eppler about Ward on Tuesday. I assume you read my story.  He said he’s not ready defensively. Rengifo just got to AAA a month ago. They aren’t going to rush guys to the majors. 

Here’s a secret....

The root of all the Angels problems is they ignored the farm system from about 2010-2015. That’s resulted in them being unable to produce any young players who were good enough to be everyday major leaguers. So they kept recycling 30+ year old major leaguers on the decline. 

Its not Scioscia. It’s the personnel. You shouldn’t need me to tell you this. 

Yeah, it's why I don't complain about Scioscia, he can only work with what he's given.

Well, in regards to the minors, we need perspective then because we see Valbuena, Marte and Cowart and know what we have and can wonder what guys like Ward, Theiss, and Rengifo can offer as an alternative.

So, thanks for the response

[Lou]

32 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Cannot a manager become stale to a fan base after 19 seasons, especially when the team will have made just one post-season trip from 2010-2018?   Granted, that is moreso on Moreno, Reagins, Dipoto, and Daniels.

becoming stale to a fan base doesn't matter one iota.

how long has the current roster been playing for Scioscia and how do they feel about him? 

[ten ocho recon scout]

34 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Have you given any thought to the concept that the Angels young players may not be any good?

They did have the worst farm system in baseball for a few years. 

Exactly.

There are finally signs of life from the farm, but its been years since that was the case.

Trout. Trumbo, bourjos, conger, grichuk, calhoun. I might be missing a name here or there. But those are the only guys we brought up in the last decade or so that turned into everyday players. Not just for us, but MLB. Thats horrible. And shows how bad the front office was for so many years.

[UndertheHalo]

24 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It is partly why some on here, myself included, are frustrated with him, hearing the same things and seeing the same things for 19 years.

So no actual reason.  Just 

 

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Here’s a secret....

The root of all the Angels problems is they ignored the farm system from about 2010-2015. That’s resulted in them being unable to produce any young players who were good enough to be everyday major leaguers. So they kept recycling 30+ year old major leaguers on the decline. 

@Jeff Fletcher  Never understood their thinking.....Farm System and International signings are relatively cheap compared to Vernon Wells or Josh Hamilton....It’s not necessarily more expensive to run a good Farm system....What was the thought process?

[UndertheHalo]

The Scoiscia “nut swingers” have brought all this up many times before.  You guys that hate Scoiscia are sort of mindless about it. 

Seriously.  Before this season, please name one non bullpen player that’s come up and made regular contribution to the Angels.  When was the last time that happened ? 

This board would lose its shit a few years ago when Marte would sit.  Or when the great Kyle Kubitza  wasn’t made a regular.

seriously, Scotty had 3/4 of you thinking Kubitza was going to be an all star.  There’s an endless list of stupid shit that people on AW lose their minds about and blame Scoiscia.  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s fine if they move onto someone else.  If they keep him great I think he’s a great manager.  But if they don’t a new voice could be good.  I know one thing for sure, I can’t wait to hear all the new bullshit you guys pin on the new manager.  A bunch of you are so completely out of touch that you think Eppler is a failure.

Edited August 3, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Jeff Fletcher]

it’s the players

its the players 

its the players

its the players 

its the players 

its the players 

[Homebrewer]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Exactly.

There are finally signs of life from the farm, but its been years since that was the case.

Trout. Trumbo, bourjos, conger, grichuk, calhoun. I might be missing a name here or there. But those are the only guys we brought up in the last decade or so that turned into everyday players. Not just for us, but MLB. Thats horrible. And shows how bad the front office was for so many years.

The fact is that the organizational "model" has been passed down from Scioscia during his reign. He has shaped the design of the players HE has wanted down through the minors and the coaching there, so that the players he eventually gets sent are ready to play his style of baseball.

There are some solid players around the majors who started out in the Angels org and went on to play with other teams, for whatever reason. That there aren't more reflects on the scouting and the drafting decisions made while Scioscia was King. Just the fact that ownership decided he should get a 10 year contract shows the absurd amount of influence he has had top to bottom.

It's time for a more enlightened regime to take over.

[mulwin444]

Baldoquin instead of Vlad Jr I think best personifies the Dipoto years

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

it’s the players

its the players 

its the players

its the players 

its the players 

its the players 

Question Jeff, were you ever able to get a sense for why Dipoto’s Angels front office favored the high floor low ceiling guys ? Surely they had to know quickly that strategy was a massive failure.  What was the deal with that ?

[Tank]

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

I just want the next manager to be skinny and not Italian.  

Dear Johnny Giovatella,

thank you for your recent inquiry into our managerial plans for next year. Unfortunately for you, we have decided to go in a different direction...

[UndertheHalo]

8 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

The fact is that the organizational "model" has been passed down from Scioscia during his reign. He has shaped the design of the players HE has wanted down through the minors and the coaching there, so that the players he eventually gets sent are ready to play his style of baseball.

There are some solid players around the majors who started out in the Angels org and went on to play with other teams, for whatever reason. That there aren't more reflects on the scouting and the drafting decisions made while Scioscia was King. Just the fact that ownership decided he should get a 10 year contract shows the absurd amount of influence he has had top to bottom.

It's time for a more enlightened regime to take over.

Dude you’re pulling this entire argument out of your ass.  Scoiscia had an influencial seat at the table when Reagins was the GM.  That stopped when Reagins left.  It’s been years.  This whole emperor Scoiscia thing you constantly push is complete bullshit.  

[Homebrewer]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Dude you’re pulling this entire argument out of your ass.  Scoiscia had an influencial seat at the table when Reagins was the GM.  That stopped when Reagins left.  It’s been years.  This whole emperor Scoiscia thing you constantly push is complete bullshit.  

Yeah, right. That's why Dipoto walked.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Homebrewer said:

Yeah, right. That's why Dipoto walked.

Dipoto walked because he’s a fuc*king quitter that can’t handle an argument.  Also, he saw the writing on the wall that he had wrecked everything.  Dipoto ran this team in the exact manner that Dipoto wanted to. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Jeff Fletcher]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Question Jeff, were you ever able to get a sense for why Dipoto’s Angels front office favored the high floor low ceiling guys ? Surely they had to know quickly that strategy was a massive failure.  What was the deal with that ?

Because they were playing it safe, they thought. It didn’t work. 

[Tank]

I'm okay if they give Sosh a gold watch and a slap on the ass and say thanks for everything. 

Im okay if they keep him on another year.

he is not the problem with or the reason for the teams performance.

[Homebrewer]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Dipoto walked because he’s a fuc*king quitter that can’t handle an argument.  Also, he saw the writing on the wall that he had wrecked everything.  Dipoto ran this team in the exact manner that Dipoto wanted to. 

Yeah, well you keep telling yourself that. And when a point has been reached that people get so worked up that they feel a need to personally attack someone they might not agree with is when I bail...

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

Yeah, well you keep telling yourself that. And when a point has been reached that people get so worked up that they feel a need to personally attack someone they might not agree with is when I bail...

It’s weird how ownership and management and the players backed Scoiscia.  

And I didn’t personally attack you.  You’re making up a narrative and I told you that you were.  Go back and read the stories from 2015. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by UndertheHalo