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Red Sox get Ian Kinsler


Chuck

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8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Here you go... http://statcorner.com/team/533/2018/Pawtucket Red Sox.    Park index data for Pawtucket.   You can look up the players and see how they compare to the league.

Check out their GB rates..   High K, near elite GB rates aren't a bad combo to have

That is a super important point. Having Simmons, Cozart (next year) and high GB pitchers maximizes the value of their defense. That's a point I hadnt noticed, thanks! 

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3 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I believe that people are thrilled that we got anything of value for Kinsler, and it also potentially helps to shore up the 2019 bullpen. Neither of these guys is going to be a lockdown closer, but they could easily fill lesser roles in the pen.

If there is one thing I want to be clear on: I'm glad we moved Kinsler. Even if for no return. The value of giving the farm a shot to prove it for next year or at least getting their feet wet is plenty. I was solely curious if we did actually get good prospects in return. Seems a bit better than I thought on first glance at their stats. 

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6 minutes ago, Ray McKigney said:

Any chance that Sosh doesn't move Fletch to 2B and put Valbuena/Marte at 3rd everyday?

doubtful considering that Valbuena already lost his job at 3b.  Fletcher is going to play everyday.  Cowart coming up is not wanting to jack with the 40 man just yet.  

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https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-19-prospects-boston-red-sox/

Info on Buttrey:

"A behemoth sinker/changeup prospect, Buttrey will touch 100 and sit 94-97. His delivery lacks fluidity it detracts from his ability to command his fastball, but there’s enough strike-throwing ability and stuff to comfortably project Buttrey in a relief role, and he has a non-zero chance to be a late-inning arm."

The potential appears to be there; let's see what we can do with it.

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8 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I believe that people are thrilled that we got anything of value for Kinsler, and it also potentially helps to shore up the 2019 bullpen. Neither of these guys is going to be a lockdown closer, but they could easily fill lesser roles in the pen.

Yep considering a lot of people were asking for Kinsler to be DFA'd before the All Star break 

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7 minutes ago, TroutField said:

I mean guys in AAA with high K rates is usually every reliever. Relievers that don’t strike out a ton of batters don’t usually stick long 

Cam specifically frustrates me. Absurd K rate in minors, has been really good in bigs too. But in minors he gave up next to no homers and had a pretty damn good walk rate too. Has the family pedigree with his dad to where you would think odds of the mental aspect getting to him would be less likely.

Yet in majors he gives a lot of homers and walks a bit too many too. He's not awful. I just thought he had a chance to be an elite reliever. 

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1 minute ago, 101halo said:

Cam specifically frustrates me. Absurd K rate in minors, has been really good in bigs too. But in minors he gave up next to no homers and had a pretty damn good walk rate too. Has the family pedigree with his dad to where you would think odds of the mental aspect getting to him would be less likely.

Yet in majors he gives a lot of homers and walks a bit too many too. He's not awful. I just thought he had a chance to be an elite reliever. 

From what I remember the fastball just doesn’t have the same life it did when he first came up. He used to hit 98-99 consistently. His fastball now sits around 96 and is pretty straight and his command isn’t very good either.

 

He also doesnt have that shutdown mentality you see in most closers 

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2 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

I liked what Kinsler provided this year although I wished he would have been more consistent at the plate, he did yeoman work.

Sounds like he was a great teammate and gave great interviews.

Happy for him to have a shot at a ring since he’s in the twilight of his career.

Kinsler had the highest FanGraphs 'DEF' rating by far among all qualified 2B so he was putting in the work on at least one side of the ball. Not surprised a team picked him up.

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13 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-19-prospects-boston-red-sox/

Info on Buttrey:

"A behemoth sinker/changeup prospect, Buttrey will touch 100 and sit 94-97. His delivery lacks fluidity it detracts from his ability to command his fastball, but there’s enough strike-throwing ability and stuff to comfortably project Buttrey in a relief role, and he has a non-zero chance to be a late-inning arm."

The potential appears to be there; let's see what we can do with it.

Trying to find a good comp for him, who was the last elite reliever to feature sinker/change? I'm probably missing an obvious one, and nor am I suggesting he has to be elite to make the trade worth it, just curious. 

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I would encourage people to look at the minor league history and progression of the games top relievers.  did we just get the next Craig Kimbrel and Andrew Miller for 1/3rd of a season of Ian Kinsler?  The odds are slim to none

 Did we just get two guys who are major league ready relievers with options and upside greater than what we've been pulling off the scrap heap?  

just to be clear, we don't have anyone like either of these guys in AAA right now.  

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So info from the media call...

Buttrey, 2 option years after this.... touches 100, big I upside and improved control.

Jerez, lefty, can also touch triple digts, options for next year.... 

They haven't decided if they are going to aaa or mlb as of tonight.

Eppler and ME considering playing Fletcher at 2B .... Will talk to him more

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I like it, and don't at the same time.

- We got what we could and shed some money in the process. We landed two relievers that could end up being very good. This could also lead to trade some of our current relievers, whose ERA's look fine but really are not dependable at all.

- I don't like it because it feels like a byproduct of this is simply going to be a rerun. 2019, Eppler will build a pen of a collection of no names and hope it works out. Also, I don't have any confidence these guys will prove to be any better than Eduardo Paredes and Akeel Morris.

So I guess I'm "meh" over it.

We turned Wilkel Hernandez and Troy Montgomery into two "maybe" relievers in the long run. It's pretty much a break even because Montgomery is a 4th OF and Hernandez is a hard throwing starter or very dynamic reliever.

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4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So info from the media call...

Buttrey, 2 option years after this.... touches 100, big I upside and improved control.

Jerez, lefty, can also touch triple digts, options for next year.... 

They haven't decided if they are going to aaa or mlb as of tonight.

Eppler and ME considering playing Fletcher at 2B .... Will talk to him more

Thanks, IP.

ME?

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2 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I like it, and don't at the same time.

- We got what we could and shed some money in the process. We landed two relievers that could end up being very good. This could also lead to trade some of our current relievers, whose ERA's look fine but really are not dependable at all.

- I don't like it because it feels like a byproduct of this is simply going to be a rerun. 2019, Eppler will build a pen of a collection of no names and hope it works out. Also, I don't have any confidence these guys will prove to be any better than Eduardo Paredes and Akeel Morris.

So I guess I'm "meh" over it.

We turned Wilkel Hernandez and Troy Montgomery into two "maybe" relievers in the long run. It's pretty much a break even because Montgomery is a 4th OF and Hernandez is a hard throwing starter or very dynamic reliever.

I bet you they'll be better than those two.  Have you seen them pitch?  ( I know you have).  

Wilkel has an era of 7.59 in A ball.  Montgomery got demoted to A+ after a poor showing in AA.  

The most obvious outcome is that Montgomery and Wilkel never make it to the majors and Buttrey and Jerez get time as relievers and end up with one good season here or there.  I like our chances of getting more out of what we got than what we gave up and I like our odds of getting more of them than what we could pull off the scrap heap.  

(seriously though.  Morris and Paredes?  come on Scotty).  

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i'm genuinely surprised we traded kinsler. all of the armchair GMs here have been increasingly calling for him to be moved (specifically to boston, too - nice call), but i can't remember too many times in the past when a player we picked up in the winter was traded during that season.

i'm encouraged that eppler and company are making moves that need to be made. small steps are fine with me . . . now it's time to see valbuena get his pink slip.

i hope they bring up ward but i'm preparing that it'll be cowart at third and fletcher will move to second. with the way the kids are playing on the farm, i see this as cowart's last shot with the team.

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1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I like it, and don't at the same time.

- We got what we could and shed some money in the process. We landed two relievers that could end up being very good. This could also lead to trade some of our current relievers, whose ERA's look fine but really are not dependable at all.

- I don't like it because it feels like a byproduct of this is simply going to be a rerun. 2019, Eppler will build a pen of a collection of no names and hope it works out. Also, I don't have any confidence these guys will prove to be any better than Eduardo Paredes and Akeel Morris.

So I guess I'm "meh" over it.

We turned Wilkel Hernandez and Troy Montgomery into two "maybe" relievers in the long run. It's pretty much a break even because Montgomery is a 4th OF and Hernandez is a hard throwing starter or very dynamic reliever.

 What are you talking about ? What did you think Kinsler was worth ? They got two more arms into the organization for an over hill 2b that won’t be with the club next year.  Arms that the organization needs.  The Angels aren’t going anywhere in 2018.  It’s great that they got anything for him.  Kinsler wasn’t the only 2b the Red Sox could have traded for. 

Edited by UndertheHalo
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