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IGNORED

This upcoming Trade Deadline


Chuck

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10 minutes ago, TroutField said:

If this team trades Simmons, Trout is as good as gone. Horrible, horrible idea. 

I'm so tired of everyone thinking they can read Mike Trout's mind on what he wants and doesn't want, and how any move one way or another affects his plans. If anyone has any idea, it's the FO. Any action or inaction may still have zero meaning on Mike's plans.

Maybe you're right, but there's absolutely no way of knowing if it means anything to Mike one way or another. 

I trust the FO to make the best moves for the Angels, with or without Mike. They cannot force him to re-sign here and should plan accordingly. As good as Mike is, it's foolish (and also quite unlike Mike) to center all of the team's plans around him.

Moves involving Simmons, Skaggs, Heaney, Bedrosian, Calhoun, would signal the team is willing to punt 2019 to make way for Thaiss, Ward, a bevy of other prospects, including those added in those deals, but I don't think that's any less risky than going with the same retuning cast next year. You're setting Trout up to mentor a team of young talent, the same guys who would be looking to him as the leader should he sign an extension. 

As I said, it'd have to be overwhelming.

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I'm talking overwhelming too.

Like the Padres floating one of Tatis Jr. or Urias, one of Gore, Quantrill, Morejon, Baez, or Espinoza (or two if no IF prospect), someone useful and controllable like Jankowski or Asuaje, and probably still one more lotto-ticket low-level prospect.

Or the Yanks offering Sheffield, Frazier, and Fioral. 

An absolutely massive haul. The kind of shit we drew up years ago as "what would it even take to get our attention on a Trout trade" moons ago when a full rebuild looked necessary.

Sorry - I'm as optimistic as can be typically, but the Richards TJS, Ohtani's UCL, the underperformance of Upton and Cozart...all of this has me feeling bleak for 2019. Come 2020, we'll be at the end of Simmons and Trout's contracts, and I don't know if there's anything new that can be tried to make next year or 2020 any more successful than what we've been trying. To me, it fees like it is finally the time to consider what to do about the 2020+ years, which may or may not feature Simmons or Trout, but will feature Adell and our other prospects. If a deal makes baseball sense to add to that wave, it should be considered. 

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1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I'm so tired of everyone thinking they can read Mike Trout's mind on what he wants and doesn't want, and how any move one way or another affects his plans. If anyone has any idea, it's the FO. Any action or inaction may still have zero meaning on Mike's plans.

Maybe you're right, but there's absolutely no way of knowing if it means anything to Mike one way or another. 

I trust the FO to make the best moves for the Angels, with or without Mike. They cannot force him to re-sign here and should plan accordingly. As good as Mike is, it's foolish (and also quite unlike Mike) to center all of the team's plans around him.

Moves involving Simmons, Skaggs, Heaney, Bedrosian, Calhoun, would signal the team is willing to punt 2019 to make way for Thaiss, Ward, a bevy of other prospects, including those added in those deals, but I don't think that's any less risky than going with the same retuning cast next year. You're setting Trout up to mentor a team of young talent, the same guys who would be looking to him as the leader should he sign an extension. 

As I said, it'd have to be overwhelming.

Yeah trading the second best player on the team would totally sit well with him when he has repeatedly said he wants to win first and foremost. 

 

Use some common sense, I’m not trying to say I know what Trout is thinking 

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27 minutes ago, TroutField said:

Yeah trading the second best player on the team would totally sit well with him when he has repeatedly said he wants to win first and foremost. 

Use some common sense, I’m not trying to say I know what Trout is thinking 

Feel like I am using common sense.

He wants to win? Not going to happen this year. 
2019? We were going to be relying on more or less the same cast of characters that we have this year, and Upton, Calhoun, and Cozart haven't exactly led me to feel next year will be better. Richards won't pitch here next year now, even if we had re-signed him, and Ohtani might not either - given the PRP track record, I'm not feeling too optimistic. 
So you're banking on everyone being back and healthy and competitive and rosy in 2020, Simba and Trout's last year. 

If he wants to win first and foremost, I would think he will be a lot more interested in who will have a winning team around him for the next contract he signs, not his current one. If that's the Angels, that winning team will feature Adell, Canning, Suarez, Maitain, Marsh, Fletcher, Adams, etc. We can hope Simba, Heaney, Skaggs are there to bridge the gap, but more than likely a couple of them will not be here for the majority of Trout's second contract.

We don't want to admit it, but that curtain is coming close to closing, and the under-performances and injuries we've sustained this year may need to start shaking what we see as the Trout years and what the future really is.

Reading into what Trout says, as you have, I also see a player who looks up to Jeter, a player who remained loyal and constant to one org and captained more than one generation of players. I think I'm ready to start the transition to that next generation. Add to that generation. I will in no way complain if Simmons, Heaney, or Skaggs are a part of that, but I also recognize that they may not be here for more than another couple seasons, and this is prime time to cash in on their value and add to the wave of players who will be here during Trout's second contract. It would have to be staggeringly overwhelming, but it should be considered. 
 

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28 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Trade Simba?  It would have to be a huge overpay for the other team and not sure why they would do that unless they are convinced that Simba will help them win the World Series. 

That is the only way I do it. The way I see it, Machado is going to frenzy up potential SS buyers into weighing the absolute most they can consider parting with for him. The Angels can be opportunistic and dangle a player like Simmons who is better than the already defensively-gifted Machado, comes with zero ego/personality issues and if anything, a huge amount of positive intangibles, and while he isn't the offensive force that Manny is, he's not far behind - and he may even be more consistent. Tack on the additional years of control that he brings, and the Angels may actually find someone willing to pay an exorbitant cost. Which, again, is the only price I'd accept. 

It's about reading the market and seeing that, if there ever was a point in time to consider maximizing the potential return on Simmons, this would be it. You don't have to, but you should recognize that this might be the only window where the stars could align dramatically in your favor on a potential return.

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4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Feel like I am using common sense.

He wants to win? Not going to happen this year. 
2019? We were going to be relying on more or less the same cast of characters that we have this year, and Upton, Calhoun, and Cozart haven't exactly led me to feel next year will be better. Richards won't pitch here next year now, even if we had re-signed him, and Ohtani might not either - given the PRP track record, I'm not feeling too optimistic. 
So you're banking on everyone being back and healthy and competitive and rosy in 2020, Simba and Trout's last year. 

If he wants to win first and foremost, I would think he will be a lot more interested in who will have a winning team around him for the next contract he signs, not his current one. If that's the Angels, that winning team will feature Adell, Canning, Suarez, Maitain, Marsh, Fletcher, Adams, etc. We can hope Simba, Heaney, Skaggs are there to bridge the gap, but more than likely a couple of them will not be here for the majority of Trout's second contract.

We don't want to admit it, but that curtain is coming close to closing, and the under-performances and injuries we've sustained this year may need to start shaking what we see as the Trout years and what the future really is.

Reading into what Trout says, as you have, I also see a player who looks up to Jeter, a player who remained loyal and constant to one org and captained more than one generation of players. I think I'm ready to start the transition to that next generation. Add to that generation. I will in no way complain if Simmons, Heaney, or Skaggs are a part of that, but I also recognize that they may not be here for more than another couple seasons, and this is prime time to cash in on their value and add to the wave of players who will be here during Trout's second contract. It would have to be staggeringly overwhelming, but it should be considered. 
 

I give you credit for thinking outside the box and trading Simba for a haul, but the truth is, I don't think any teams that are hunting for talent right now truly need a long-term SS like Simba.  We are in the golden era of shortstops - a lot of the legit contenders have a very solid one.  The only team I can think of who legitimately needs one is Arizona, and they don't have the prospect capital that we'd want.

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Just now, Warfarin said:

I give you credit for thinking outside the box and trading Simba for a haul, but the truth is, I don't think any teams that are hunting for talent right now truly need a long-term SS like Simba.  We are in the golden era of shortstops - a lot of the legit contenders have a very solid one.  The only team I can think of who legitimately needs one is Arizona, and they don't have the prospect capital that we'd want.

And if that's the case, then there is no reason to deal him, which is a perfectly fine outcome. 

The Padres have a filthy amount of SP prospects, many are close to MLB ready, many with more upside and ceiling than even Canning. They also have a dearth of MIF prospects that could theoretically be loosed up if they brought in Simmons. Arizona has a need, but I'm not a fan of their prospects at all. The Yankees have the farm, but not sure the need. The Braves similarly. 

So, yeah, that really limits the suitors, which makes a deal even that much more unlikely. 

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3 hours ago, totdprods said:

I'd still entertain offers for Simmons, Skaggs, and Heaney. It'd have to be totally overwhelming but someone may overpay, and you'll have a hot SS market to play off from Machado. The Angels have two players in-house more than capable of holding down SS at least defensively next year in Cozart and Fletcher. Nowhere near Andrelton's level, but within the realm of reasonable for a contending MLB club. Simmons would probably net one or two blue-chip pitching prospects. 

Suarez obviously won't step in and replace the production of Skaggs or Heaney, but adding a 3rd lefty to the rotation may cause some imbalance. Dealing one now would make some sense, especially if Corbin becomes an offseason target. 

Really tough position this team is in again.

high bong GIF

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3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

And if that's the case, then there is no reason to deal him, which is a perfectly fine outcome. 

The Padres have a filthy amount of SP prospects, many are close to MLB ready, many with more upside and ceiling than even Canning. They also have a dearth of MIF prospects that could theoretically be loosed up if they brought in Simmons. Arizona has a need, but I'm not a fan of their prospects at all. The Yankees have the farm, but not sure the need. The Braves similarly. 

So, yeah, that really limits the suitors, which makes a deal even that much more unlikely. 

You can add the Dogs to the teams in need. Will Seger be a SS when he returns?

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Reason I bring up Simba, and Heaney and Skaggs, is that this is the opportune window to make a deal. 

It doesn't mean I want to deal them, or that I think they should, it's just that this is the best time to do so, so it wouldn't hurt seeing whats out there. Their value will likely never be higher than it is now, due to a combo of their control, cost, production, and the market. 

Dealing Richards and Calhoun a couple years ago would have fallen under the same thought process - Heyward, Gordon, Upton, and Cespedes were in demand and had the interest of a number of teams, but the chill on FAs was starting then, and teams were fairly slow to offer up big money. It was the ideal time to shop Calhoun, who would have a down year the next year, but the thought of the Angels going with two stopgaps at corner OF (the market was loaded at the time) and try and get a team to go that route instead of the FA $$$. Richards too would have fetched a pretty prospect package from teams like the Red Sox or Cubs. Neither have done much for the Angels since then. 

Now, in no way do I think Simmons is going to diminish the next couple years - just that this is the time of peak value, and with internal replacements already in-house, the gains we'd make in SP prospect depth may be worth the difference in SS production. Maybe.

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