Are the Angels simply 2 players away?

[Tank]

You need a stud like Verlander and a stud closer, just for starters.

you need a third baseman that can hit for at least Jon Kruk's weight, and corner outfielders that don't go off the radar for big stretches. Put Fletcher at second and give Kinsler a nice parting gift. You make these moves and Alberts bat is acceptable.

so that's five players in my view.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

You need a stud like Verlander and a stud closer, just for starters.

you need a third baseman that can hit for at least Jon Kruk's weight, and corner outfielders that don't go off the radar for big stretches. Put Fletcher at second and give Kinsler a nice parting gift. You make these moves and Alberts bat is acceptable.

so that's five players in my view.

[Torridd]

4 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

If these kids in the minors pan out, and Trout signs an extension, 2021-22 could be the return of competitive Angels baseball.

But yeah, the next two seasons...continue the rebuild.

Rebuild? 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, fan_since79 said:

If these kids in the minors pan out, and Trout signs an extension, 2021-22 could be the return of competitive Angels baseball.

But yeah, the next two seasons...continue the rebuild.

The Angels don't need a rebuild.  Every team should always make sure they don't gut the entire farm.  But the Angels are not the Royals.

There is no reason whatsoever to settle for waiting through more seasons of mediocrity just hoping Trout stays and hoping the prospects pan out.

No way.  Go get good players and try to contend.

[T.G.]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

The Angels don't need a rebuild.  Every team should always make sure they don't gut the entire farm.  But the Angels are not the Royals.

There is no reason whatsoever to settle for waiting through more seasons of mediocrity just hoping Trout stays and hoping the prospects pan out.

No way.  Go get good players and try to contend.

[floplag]

39 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Since my original post openly addresses that the bullpen has to get fixed, but that this probably doesn't require free agency so it is a separate discussion, what is the actual point if you saying there is no point of acquiring two impact players without fixing the bullpen.

That was expressed in the OP, isn't the subject of the discussion, and is a "duh".

None of this requires free agency per se, trades are always an option.   Player acquisitions are not limited so it isnt really separate at all.  The roster has holes to be filled, how you fill them is irrelevant.
  
The point is that they dont affect the standing enough to matter, this the "different level" comment seems invalid. 

If you add machado and degrom right now, right now, or even if you had them from seasons start, i highly doubt we are still in the WC spot.   We might be closer to it of course, but those 2 guys dont make up a dozen games, therefore whatever level it is isnt the standings. 

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

The Angels don't need a rebuild.  Every team should always make sure they don't gut the entire farm.  But the Angels are not the Royals.

There is no reason whatsoever to settle for waiting through more seasons of mediocrity just hoping Trout stays and hoping the prospects pan out.

No way.  Go get good players and try to contend.

This i agree with, but again ive given up hope that it will happen.  
They've tried to fix the pen 2 years running with cast offs and have refused to bust the luxury tax. 
They are done till Albert is off the books.  Till i see something to the contrary, that is my expectation.

[fan_since79]

Albert will be the albatross around our necks for the next two to three years.

It's the inconvenient truth. 

[Dtwncbad]

Let me be pretty dramatic but truthful on a very personal level.

I am 51 yrs old and life is far more busy now than 20 yrs ago.  I love baseball and love the Angels.  They will always be my favorite team with nobody in second place.

But if the Angels employ a "wait it out" strategy though the next cpuple of seasons where the plan is to HOPE the prospects work out and HOPE Trout stays. . .If the prospects end up nothing special and Trout leaves, then my relationship with the team changes.

Yes I would still be a fan but screw that.  My interest in this team as a legitimate franchise that knows how to compete, that wants to compete, would be altered forever.

 

[dprep80]

17 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

The Angels don't need a rebuild.  Every team should always make sure they don't gut the entire farm.  But the Angels are not the Royals.

There is no reason whatsoever to settle for waiting through more seasons of mediocrity just hoping Trout stays and hoping the prospects pan out.

No way.  Go get good players and try to contend.

Based on JDs price last year they shouldn't have to give up too much to get Machado.  He'd be a great 3 month rental.

[Blarg]

For what purpose? That is pissing away prospects for no gain in the standings.

[Angelsjunky]

Trading for Machado now would be insanity. If they’re interested wait for the offseason and then inquire and maybe make an offer, but only if he’ll play 3B. To be honest, I’d rather have Simmons at SS because his bat has improved and he’s just that much better defensively. 

 

[Jay]

I'm not a fan of rentals unless a team is already a lock for the playoffs.

[WeatherWonk]

11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Let me be pretty dramatic but truthful on a very personal level.

I am 51 yrs old and life is far more busy now than 20 yrs ago.  I love baseball and love the Angels.  They will always be my favorite team with nobody in second place.

But if the Angels employ a "wait it out" strategy though the next cpuple of seasons where the plan is to HOPE the prospects work out and HOPE Trout stays. . .If the prospects end up nothing special and Trout leaves, then my relationship with the team changes.

Yes I would still be a fan but screw that.  My interest in this team as a legitimate franchise that knows how to compete, that wants to compete, would be altered forever.

 

There's no denying that it takes more than just players from within. FA and trades have to happen.

Just because I dont think we are in a position to contend, doesnt mean we shouldnt consider these between now and the start of 2019. This season is probably over but we arent the Marlins or the Royals. We can contend next year.

But probably only for a WC. HOU is such a juggernaut and so young. I expect them to get a real closer in the next month. That's about all they need. Maybe another catcher, depending on McCann's health.

[T.G.]

6 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Let me be pretty dramatic but truthful on a very personal level.

I am 51 yrs old and life is far more busy now than 20 yrs ago.  I love baseball and love the Angels.  They will always be my favorite team with nobody in second place.

But if the Angels employ a "wait it out" strategy though the next cpuple of seasons where the plan is to HOPE the prospects work out and HOPE Trout stays. . .If the prospects end up nothing special and Trout leaves, then my relationship with the team changes.

Yes I would still be a fan but screw that.  My interest in this team as a legitimate franchise that knows how to compete, that wants to compete, would be altered forever.

 

I'm with you.  It gets harder and harder each season to stay motivated enough to keep season tickets, etc.  We usually go all in... hit up spring training, try to catch a game or two on the road, go to as many home games as possible, etc.  We do less and less of that each year.  Investing a lot of time and money isn't much fun when the team isn't performing at a high level.  I don't have the answers.  I just know that baseball is a tough game and so much has to go right for a team to win it all. 

I expect them to spend this off season.  I just hope they spend wisely.  That's not an easy thing to do.  The list of failed FA is long and not exclusive to the Angels. 

I try to stay positive.  I try to make light of some situations, but losing sucks.  Having no hope sucks even more.  The Angels need to give me some hope.

I am right there with you. 

[dprep80]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

For what purpose? That is pissing away prospects for no gain in the standings.

The prospects Arizona gave up for JD were expendable. 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

1 premium SP and one premium bat... and the pen would still bork it up.
I see it like this, IF we had both of those things from the beginning of the year, would it make up 12 games?  i dont think it does. 
Im not knocking the idea mind you but fixing this team has to start in the pen, or you waste the big moves. 

Hell lock down Pen would have given us about 8 games!

If we get a premium starting pitcher he will get TJ surgery by June!

[Dtwncbad]

Agree on rentals at this point.

But I am wide open to the right move at the deadline if it secures an impact player controllable past this year.

I would be glad to swap some of the more "ready" (but lower ceiling) prospects for one firm solution to a problem.

 

[Stradling]

30 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Rebuild? 

Yes we’re in a rebuild and have been for two plus years.  

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

Easier said than done.  The whole FA thing is just unpredictable.  Seems like more "busts" than not.  Off the top off my head busts that come to mind include Jay Bruce, Logan Morrison and Dexter Fowler (2 yrs ago).  Pitching "busts" include Yu Darvish, Greg Holland, Lance Lynn, and Alex Cobb.  I know there are tons of them out there, but I am not going to take the time to research it. 

The Twins were supposed to be contenders... they went all in on Lynn and Cobb... and that didn't work out.

Winning is hard. 

True, and that is why I mentioned that the scouts and the FO need to make it count.   If there is enough doubt when big money is involved, back off on those signings, especially if you have the farm to get things done via promotions.

Teams are naturally going to know much more about their own players than other teams' players.   There are idiosyncracies not easily seen from afar, like plate alignment and prep work done.    It's different from basketball, football, and hockey, which are much more uniform in how they are played. 

The Cardinals have traditionally had minimal involvement in FA, especially with big money guys.  Matt Holliday is the only big money FA they have signed for many years, and he was one of their own FAs to be.   

[2020worldseries]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Agree on rentals at this point.

But I am wide open to the right move at the deadline if it secures an impact player controllable past this year.

I would be glad to swap some of the more "ready" (but lower ceiling) prospects for one firm solution to a problem.

 

I agree. One of the Marlins relievers would be nice

i honestly don’t see a place for Taylor Ward on this team in the future. He’s putting up great numbers (fluke year?) but in the PCL. Trade him while value is up

[Torridd]

3 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Yes we’re in a rebuild and have been for two plus years.  

We haven't been rebuilding.

[T.G.]

Technically, I wouldn't call it a re-build.  I think rebuilds usually include tear downs and they haven't done that.  They're simply finding the best ways to improve the team while trying to stay competitive.  They're trying to be more fiscally responsible too.  I believe this year's roster was built with the idea of contending.  It just hasn't worked out.  Injuries, under performing players, etc.  It's hard.  Freakin' hard.

If anything, I think they're rebuilding the farm system... but trying to keep the big league roster in a competitive mode with veterans. 

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Hell lock down Pen would have given us about 8 games!

If we get a premium starting pitcher he will get TJ surgery by June!

right, lol   Careful on the pen part though as the powers that be around here take offense to such comments. 

[mulwin444]

Guaranteed money going into 2019 (AAV):

Trout: $24 mil

Pujols: $24 mil

Upton: $21 mil

Cozart: $13 mil

Simmons: $8.25 mil

Calhoun: $9 mil

$99.25 mil in six players at minimum through 2019 with luxury tax limit in 2019 at $206,000,000

Richards is a free agent, and, if they don't trade him away at the deadline, they can give him a QO which in 2019 maybe around $18 mil.

Shoemaker is ARB eligible in 2019 but it's his first season so, if his forearm issues are resolved by the offseason, he could be cheap enough to retain.

JC Ramirez is ARB eligible in 2019.  Do they re-up with him?

Tyler Skaggs is ARB eligible in 2019 and will get a good payday unless we work out an extension

Blake Parker is ARB eligible in 2019 and likely is retained and paid

Cam Bedrosian is ARB eligible in 2019.  Do they re-up with him?

Jose Alvarez is ARB eligible in 2019 and is likely retained and paid

Andrew Heaney is ARB eligible in 2019 and will get a good payday unless we work out an extension

Nick Tropeano is ARB eligible in 2019 and will likely get retained

Jefry Marte is not ARB eligible until 2020 so he's probably going to be considered for a roster spot due to club control...unless they release him as redundant 

Alex Meyer is not ARB eligible until 2020

Kenyan Middleton is not ARB eligible until 2020

Noe Ramirez is not ARB eligible until 2021

Ohtani is not ARB eligible until 2021

So, that's 20 players right there.  Then, consider Maldonado is a free agent so that will cost us to lock up but I'd say there is interest in both sides so he's likely retained and we bring up a minor leaguer as back-up

2019 - 25 Man Roster

C) Maldonado/Back-up

1B) Pujols (he won't be released)

2B) maybe Cozart or Fletcher

3B) maybe Cozart or Fletcher

SS) Simmons

LF) Upton

CF) Trout

RF) Calhoun

9 position players

Starting Rotation: Richards (Maybe - either extension or QO), Skaggs, Ohtani (if no surgery), Heaney, Tropeano, Barria

Bullpen: Shoemaker, Meyer, JC Ramirez, Middleton, Noe Ramirez, Bedrosian, Alvarez

13 pitchers

22 players of the 25 man potentially accounted for.

Obviously, this is assuming rehab for Meyer, JC Ramirez, Middleton, and Shoemaker allow them to contribute in 2019

Reserve roles are going to start to be occupied by Ward, Theiss, JMF, Rengifo, Hermosillo and Houchins as well

Where do you go from here?