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Even if we're not contenders...


Glen

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Constructing a bullpen isn't easy. I do give Eppler some slack for this. Look at most of the FA relievers that were available in the offseason. Most if not all are complete ass right now. Bullpen arms are suffering from Ervin Santana syndrome it seems. Very inconsistent and you never know what you'll get. Is trading a possibly decent prospect worth it? Maybe. Obviously it's a risk like with any trade but damn. These relievers are so hard to judge.

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I think they need to be a bit more shrewd and send some people packing first. Send a message that mediocrity won’t be tolerated. They need to apply more of a Yankees / Red Sox mentality. If you don’t perform, you’re going to ride the pine or be released. Put some pressure on these guys and make them accountable.Take the next three months and winter meetings to re-evaluate the entire team and pounce on deals that make sense for the future. Stop worrying about chasing a couple of bullpen guys right away that will give us a couple of meaningless saves in August. Look at the bigger long term picture. No more hand me downs!

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Just looking at some of more dominant/consistent relievers and where they were obtained:

Troy Percival - 6th round draft pick in 1990 as a Catcher - ". He batted .203 in his only season as a catcher with the Boise Hawks and was converted to a pitcher when coaches noticed that his return throws to the mound were actually faster than the pitches he caught."

Ben Weber - signed as a free agent at age 30, his rookie season in 2000, after washing out with the Giants earlier that year.

Scot Shields - 38th round draft pick out of High School in 1997, wavered between starting and relieving in the minors before 2 mediocre starting seasons solidified it's path.

Brendan Donnelly - Signed as a minor league free agent in 2000 and made his rookie debut at age 30 with the Angels in 2002.

Franky Rodriguez - Signed as an amateur free agent at age 16, converted to reliever in 2002 after posting 5-7 5.38 ERA 1.601 WHIP as a starter in 2001.

Jordan Walden - 12th round draft pick and converted starter

 Apart from 2014, which saw us sign Grilli and Smith with success, Free Agent signings or trades are pretty hit and miss (Justin Speier, Scott Downs, Fernando Salas, Huston Street, Ernesto Frieri, Fernando Rodney, Vinnie Pestano, Sean Burnett, Joe Blanton, Brian Fuentes, Ryan Madson, Jose Alvarez, Cory Rasmus, Bud Norris, Yusmeiro Petit)   

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5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Just looking at some of more dominant/consistent relievers and where they were obtained:

Troy Percival - 6th round draft pick in 1990 as a Catcher - ". He batted .203 in his only season as a catcher with the Boise Hawks and was converted to a pitcher when coaches noticed that his return throws to the mound were actually faster than the pitches he caught."

Ben Weber - signed as a free agent at age 30, his rookie season in 2000, after washing out with the Giants earlier that year.

Scot Shields - 38th round draft pick out of High School in 1997, wavered between starting and relieving in the minors before 2 mediocre starting seasons solidified it's path.

Brendan Donnelly - Signed as a minor league free agent in 2000 and made his rookie debut at age 30 with the Angels in 2002.

Franky Rodriguez - Signed as an amateur free agent at age 16, converted to reliever in 2002 after posting 5-7 5.38 ERA 1.601 WHIP as a starter in 2001.

Jordan Walden - 12th round draft pick and converted starter

 Apart from 2014, which saw us sign Grilli and Smith with success, Free Agent signings or trades are pretty hit and miss (Justin Speier, Scott Downs, Fernando Salas, Huston Street, Ernesto Frieri, Fernando Rodney, Vinnie Pestano, Sean Burnett, Joe Blanton, Brian Fuentes, Ryan Madson, Jose Alvarez, Cory Rasmus, Bud Norris, Yusmeiro Petit)   

Just a note, Donnelly was a strike player.

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22 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Just looking at some of more dominant/consistent relievers and where they were obtained:

Troy Percival - 6th round draft pick in 1990 as a Catcher - ". He batted .203 in his only season as a catcher with the Boise Hawks and was converted to a pitcher when coaches noticed that his return throws to the mound were actually faster than the pitches he caught."

Ben Weber - signed as a free agent at age 30, his rookie season in 2000, after washing out with the Giants earlier that year.

Scot Shields - 38th round draft pick out of High School in 1997, wavered between starting and relieving in the minors before 2 mediocre starting seasons solidified it's path.

Brendan Donnelly - Signed as a minor league free agent in 2000 and made his rookie debut at age 30 with the Angels in 2002.

Franky Rodriguez - Signed as an amateur free agent at age 16, converted to reliever in 2002 after posting 5-7 5.38 ERA 1.601 WHIP as a starter in 2001.

Jordan Walden - 12th round draft pick and converted starter

 Apart from 2014, which saw us sign Grilli and Smith with success, Free Agent signings or trades are pretty hit and miss (Justin Speier, Scott Downs, Fernando Salas, Huston Street, Ernesto Frieri, Fernando Rodney, Vinnie Pestano, Sean Burnett, Joe Blanton, Brian Fuentes, Ryan Madson, Jose Alvarez, Cory Rasmus, Bud Norris, Yusmeiro Petit)   

Getting the vibe the best bet is to convert some of our non top SP prospects into relievers. Let's them open up the arm for some more velocity.

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4 hours ago, HaloCory22 said:

Getting the vibe the best bet is to convert some of our non top SP prospects into relievers. Let's them open up the arm for some more velocity.

we did that with Anderson just last year.  He was a starter through 2016.  Struggled with walks big time in 2017 and then found another gear.  As a starter, he was low 90's touching mid occasionally.  Now he's 99 with a good breaking ball.  Still only 25 years old.  Hope he finds some control or he'll end up like Michael Kohn.

We've at least got a bunch of guys like that now sort of tooling around in the system.    

Luis Pena, Mitchel Traver, Nate Bertness, Joe Gatto, Erik Manoah, Jose Rodriguez, Jason Alexander, Simon Mathews, Luis Madero, Ivan Pineyro, Jeremy Beasley, Isaac Mattson, Oliver Ortega, Matt Ball, etc.  

Then a bunch of actual relievers with control problems like Daniel Procopio, Sean Isaac, Kida De La Cruz, Adrian Almeida, Samil de los santos, Jonah Wesely, Brett Hanewich. 

Everyone's minors are filled with these guys.  But the same reason relievers are volatile at the major league level is the same reason a lot of these guys are still in limbo.  Because of consistency.  There are a lot of great arms out there.  Hansel Robles came in throwing 99 the other day with good movement and a good breaking ball.  He just can find a way to throw meaningful strikes.  We've seen him miss location.  It goes a long way.  

 

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1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Shoe, Meyer, JC Ramirez, Tropeano.....

That in itself also explains why the pen has problems - the starters weren't healthy enough as a whole unit to afford conversions, and the best guys to convert all got hurt.

Really thinks it's just awful luck, and still probably a reflection of how thin the org's farm was.

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Ten games behind the second wild card in June with Oakland also ahead of us, and Texas creeping up.

Forget it. Maybe Ohtani will save us with his bat when he returns. The bullpen needs three or four guys who can get batters out. We also need another two or three starters not named Lamb or Pena to replace the injured ones, and three or four hitters with OPS above .700. That's a multi-year rebuild any way you look at it.

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33 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Ten games behind the second wild card in June with Oakland also ahead of us, and Texas creeping up.

Forget it. Maybe Ohtani will save us with his bat when he returns. The bullpen needs three or four guys who can get batters out. We also need another two or three starters not named Lamb or Pena to replace the injured ones, and three or four hitters with OPS above .700. That's a multi-year rebuild any way you look at it.

Pena looks good so far today...

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