Deck McGuire Seems Like a Nice Young Man

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

That means nothing now. 

It means nothing now to you.

it does to me as I expect more from an Angels first round draft choice than a guy picked off the heap (Deck).

We can agree to disagree.

[Stradling]

22 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I'm legitimately interested in your opinion on these questions.

1. Do you believe John Lamb, Felix Pena and Deck McGuire are better right now than Jose Suarez and Griffin Canning?

2. Do you believe that Albert Pujols, and Luis Valbuena are better than Matt Thaiss, Jose Miguel Fernandez, Taylor Ward and David Fletcher? 

Obviously, I believe the answer to both these questions is unequivocally no, which is why I believe they aren't committed to winning in 2018. When you don't put out your best players on the field, you aren't completely in it to win that season.

I think the Angels are more geared toward winning in the future.

I am sure Suarez and Canning are probably better, at least Canning is.  But it is probably too early to start their clock.  

As for the others, I have no idea.  Keep in mind you assumed Hermosillo was better than Kole this time last year, so be careful what you wish for. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

I am sure Suarez and Canning are probably better, at least Canning is.  But it is probably too early to start their clock.  

As for the others, I have no idea.  Keep in mind you assumed Hermosillo was better than Kole this time last year, so be careful what you wish for. 

When Kole has gone cold, pretty much everyone is better than him.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Blarg said:

There were lots of nice guys in WWI that went over the top. 

I laughed harder at this than i probably should have. I also realized its been too long since i saw the movie, which isnt related to your comment, but still. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, True Grich said:

Scotty - I have no expertise in evaluating talent.  I genuinely don't know if any of those guys are better than the other. 

That being said, I generally believe there is more to putting a baseball team together than just putting who the best players are (which is largely subjective).  I don't think any team automatically puts the best players on the field, regardless of their age, etc.  If I'm wrong - you can certainly correct me with specific examples. 

I also think some players have to take certain steps before they're ready for MLB.  You, yourself claimed Hermosillo was better than Calhoun last year - but also admit that he wasn't ready for the big leagues THIS year.  How do you reconcile that?

You also have to balance who's on the 40 man roster, etc. - because there are ramifications for taking players off of it, right?

So - I'm sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you.  I don't think it is as black and white as you are making it out to be. 

I trust you can judge talent, especially minor league talent much better than I can. I haven't even seen Suarez, Canning, Ward, or Thaiss. 

 

As I told BM, when Kole goes cold, pretty much everyone is better than him. And I mean that. The end of last year and the beginning of this year, Kole was the worst hitter I'd seen since Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis. 

Kole needed to completely remake his swing and his entire approach in order to hit a Major League Baseball again. 

Reconciled.

Do you see the Red Sox playing Rusney Castillo over Benintendi because Castillo has a contract? Do you see the Yanks playing Ellsbury over Hicks because Jacoby is a veteran?

Teams that win, put the best talent on the field. There's a lot that goes into that, but that fact itself is pretty simple and straightforward.

For the vast majority of this season, the Angels have received poor production from Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Kinsler, all while having young prospects put up video game numbers in AA and AAA.

Let's not even say the prospects are better, because that's an educated guess and not a certainty.

At the very least, we can say this, "There's an opening, and those prospects have earned a look."

The Angels aren't even giving them that. 

So no, it doesn't be appear to the casual or in-depth observer that the Angels are doing everything they can to win. They want to win, but they want to win with their highly paid veterans, not with young players.

The best teams don't need to distinguish between the two. The Angels do.

[greginpsca]

6 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

We need more pitchers.

Robbie Ross and Pat Light are available. 

We scored 11 runs off of them in the 7th inning in Fenway on July 2, 2016. 

Get on the phone, Billy!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201607020.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rossro01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lightpa01.shtml

Pitchers like that are ALWAYS available. The trick is finding guys who can actually pitch a clean inning.

[Slegnaac]

6 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

There are a contingent of organizations, scouts who believe that McGuire turned a corner after the ASB last year. His spin rate and velocity supposedly improved after a tweak in his arm slot and he's using his off-speed pitches more effectively now.

We'll see. I mean he hasn't looked awful so far with the Angels, but also doesn't look like anything special on the mound.

But I do notice the Angels are taking pretty much every measure possible to not promote Jose Suarez or Griffin Canning, which tells me a couple things.

1. The Angels aren't fully committed to winning this year, because if they were, they'd both be in he rotation right now.

2. The Angels also likely believe them to be part of the future staff and would like to retain an additional season of control over them, and thus likely won't promote either Canning or Suarez until mid or late May 2019.

Or that additional year of control makes them more valuable in a trade.

[T.G.]

18 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

As I told BM, when Kole goes cold, pretty much everyone is better than him. And I mean that. The end of last year and the beginning of this year, Kole was the worst hitter I'd seen since Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis. 

Kole needed to completely remake his swing and his entire approach in order to hit a Major League Baseball again. 

Reconciled.

Do you see the Red Sox playing Rusney Castillo over Benintendi because Castillo has a contract? Do you see the Yanks playing Ellsbury over Hicks because Jacoby is a veteran?

Teams that win, put the best talent on the field. There's a lot that goes into that, but that fact itself is pretty simple and straightforward.

For the vast majority of this season, the Angels have received poor production from Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Kinsler, all while having young prospects put up video game numbers in AA and AAA.

Let's not even say the prospects are better, because that's an educated guess and not a certainty.

At the very least, we can say this, "There's an opening, and those prospects have earned a look."

The Angels aren't even giving them that. 

So no, it doesn't be appear to the casual or in-depth observer that the Angels are doing everything they can to win. They want to win, but they want to win with their highly paid veterans, not with young players.

The best teams don't need to distinguish between the two. The Angels do.

My last post on this matter...

Castillo doesn't have a track record in the major leagues and Ellsbury has been hurt.  Those are unique circumstances and not "wholesale" changes - like what you are proposing with the Angels. 

It's unrealistic to think the Angels would replace Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Kinsler with guys from the minor leagues.  Four guys.  Just like that.  Teams don't do that. I think it would probably be unprecedented. 

We just need to agree to disagree on the "teams put the best talent on the field" statement.  I still don't think it's cut and dry like you do.

Regarding the "they want to win..." - That's your opinion.  It's a leap.  A giant leap, IMO. 

Scotty - At the end of the day, I respect your opinion.  I just disagree with it.  I think the Angels are trying to win - they're just going about it differently than you would. 

[Angelsfan1984]

19 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

As I told BM, when Kole goes cold, pretty much everyone is better than him. And I mean that. The end of last year and the beginning of this year, Kole was the worst hitter I'd seen since Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis. 

Kole needed to completely remake his swing and his entire approach in order to hit a Major League Baseball again. 

Reconciled.

Do you see the Red Sox playing Rusney Castillo over Benintendi because Castillo has a contract? Do you see the Yanks playing Ellsbury over Hicks because Jacoby is a veteran?

Teams that win, put the best talent on the field. There's a lot that goes into that, but that fact itself is pretty simple and straightforward.

For the vast majority of this season, the Angels have received poor production from Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Kinsler, all while having young prospects put up video game numbers in AA and AAA.

Let's not even say the prospects are better, because that's an educated guess and not a certainty.

At the very least, we can say this, "There's an opening, and those prospects have earned a look."

The Angels aren't even giving them that. 

So no, it doesn't be appear to the casual or in-depth observer that the Angels are doing everything they can to win. They want to win, but they want to win with their highly paid veterans, not with young players.

The best teams don't need to distinguish between the two. The Angels do.

There isn't a button on here that can show how much I agree with this post. There's a visible difference between teams who are constantly contending and teams "in the hunt". You have to have a sense of urgency and willingness to do everything it takes to win. If that means rubbing some people the wrong way you do it because at the end of the day its about winning.

[Stradling]

Players who’ve shown they’re ready have been Blash, Barria, Anderson, JMF, Fletcher and Thiass.  

Guys who’ve been called up and failed, Blash, Hermosillo and all the relievers.  

Guys who’ve come up and done well, Barria, Fletcher and JMF.  So one of those guys has been given a regular spot, the other two should be given those spots.   With Ohtani coming back only one probably will (Fletcher).  

JMF while I like the guy won’t be an everyday player with the Angels, not with Albert, Ohtani, Fletcher and Cozart.   

 

[Blarg]

21 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

At the very least, we can say this, "There's an opening, and those prospects have earned a look."

The Angels aren't even giving them that. 

The Cubs never gave Kris Bryant a look until Epstein and company knew they were ready to make a run. They definitely had an opening for him.

I believe Eppler is playing a slow hand (hence rentals in the infeild and short contracts) with the eye on having more 6 year cost controlled players filtering into a team that is more fully realized.

It is frustrating as a fanbase that wants to win now. But starting clocks just to look not so bad when you don't make the playoffs isn't really a great long term plan. 

The old way was flush players and call up the minor leagues and gave them do on the job training. The new cost concious method is don't start the clocks of A list minor league guys until you can get full value out of their pre arbitration years. 

Personally I'd rather kick Valbuena, Marte, Young and even Pujols to the street and give those kids a chance. That's probably why I'm not qualified to be a GM. 

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

There isn't a button on here that can show how much I agree with this post.

Yes there is, it's the Thank You trophy.

[Angelsfan1984]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Yes there is, it's the Thank You trophy.

Not shiny and big enough. It needs fireworks and dollar bills flying around it.

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, True Grich said:

My last post on this matter...

Castillo doesn't have a track record in the major leagues and Ellsbury has been hurt.  Those are unique circumstances and not "wholesale" changes - like what you are proposing with the Angels. 

It's unrealistic to think the Angels would replace Pujols, Valbuena, Cozart and Kinsler with guys from the minor leagues.  Four guys.  Just like that.  Teams don't do that. I think it would probably be unprecedented. 

We just need to agree to disagree on the "teams put the best talent on the field" statement.  I still don't think it's cut and dry like you do.

Regarding the "they want to win..." - That's your opinion.  It's a leap.  A giant leap, IMO. 

Scotty - At the end of the day, I respect your opinion.  I just disagree with it.  I think the Angels are trying to win - they're just going about it differently than you would. 

Good points, it's just frustrating to see Kinsler's and Valnobuena's much less than stellar numbers being in the lineup most of the time.   They should continue to try to win, but also one at a time phase in the young players to get them ready for 2019 and beyond.  

They've already phased in Fletcher.   Next should be Ward, to help keep Valnobuena from getting too many at bats or they should DFA or trade him for gumballs, presidential memoirs, etc.   INF by August should be Ward/Marte, Simba, Fletcher, Pujols/Marte. 

Also, it's time to cut ties with Chris Old.   What do they owe him, just $1 million to finish the 2018 season?    EY Jr. has a .353 OBP at SLC, steals some bases, doesn't K a lot, and plays better defense than Old does.   That's what a 4th OF should be doing. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The Cubs never gave Kris Bryant a look until Epstein and company knew they were ready to make a run. They definitely had an opening for him.

I believe Eppler is playing a slow hand (hence rentals in the infeild and short contracts) with the eye on having more 6 year cost controlled players filtering into a team that is more fully realized.

It is frustrating as a fanbase that wants to win now. But starting clocks just to look not so bad when you don't make the playoffs isn't really a great long term plan. 

The old way was flush players and call up the minor leagues and gave them do on the job training. The new cost concious method is don't start the clocks of A list minor league guys until you can get full value out of their pre arbitration years. 

Personally I'd rather kick Valbuena, Marte, Young and even Pujols to the street and give those kids a chance. That's probably why I'm not qualified to be a GM. 

Here's a question though.   If the youngsters are brought up halfway through the season, wouldn't the 6 years clock not make a difference as it's a partial season?   They would still need to get through the following 6 full seasons to become FAs.    This is where I'm still confused on all that is clock starting.

[Dick B Back]

7 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Not shiny and big enough. It needs fireworks and dollar bills flying around it.

@tdawg87 may have something big and shiny for ya.

[Inside Pitch]

 

On 6/28/2018 at 2:07 PM, Scotty@AW said:

I'm legitimately interested in your opinion on these questions.

1. Do you believe John Lamb, Felix Pena and Deck McGuire are better right now than Jose Suarez and Griffin Canning?

2. Do you believe that Albert Pujols, and Luis Valbuena are better than Matt Thaiss, Jose Miguel Fernandez, Taylor Ward and David Fletcher? 

Obviously, I believe the answer to both these questions is unequivocally no, which is why I believe they aren't committed to winning in 2018. When you don't put out your best players on the field, you aren't completely in it to win that season.

I think the Angels are more geared toward winning in the future.

Which is IMO a commitment to winning.    Neither Canning nor Suarez should be pushed IP wise this year -- bringing them up to have to sit them down when the team would need them most would be dumb IMO.   Not saying you're calling for that, but I think this may be what they are thinking and why they are holding off on bringing either of them up.   

Were the team in a better position than they currently are they might see it differently, but I think as this team has been hit with stuff the focus has shifted towards the future (as you are saying).  As someone that was looking at 2019 as the true target, I'm okay with it.