The Blame Game of 2018

[GrittyVeterans]

A lot of the blame is on Albert Pujols 

[laagamer]

I blame the fact we f***ing suck. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

9 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Cat, you didn't think this team had playoff potential? I think that's most of the reasons for frustration here. 

I thought they had playoff potential and I still do but I thought it was as a wildcard.  The reason I didn't think they would win the division is because Houston is the reigning champ and on paper had what I thought was the best team entering the season.  

[Angelsfan1984]

7 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Last year our starting pitching consisted of Nolasco, Chavez, Meyers, Bridwell and JC Ramirez.  No manager ever is taking that staff to a playoff spot.  

I can appreciate that, however its too long of a drought to be acceptable. Eppler is turning the farm into a treasure trove of talent, while still staying within a finite budget left by the previous regime so the manager has to be able to work within those same parameters. Unfortunately, at no point over the last 8 years has he had a successful attempt with a variety of players, coaches and circumstances. Its not feasible to me that with as much variety that has been presented that at least 1 combination in an 8 year period would be successful. 2014 they played extremely well and when push came to shove they got steam rolled when strategy and managerial skills are at center stage.

That in a nutshell is why I consider all circumstances at this point excuses. I as a fan don't find it acceptable, I have higher expectations for a franchise with as high of a payroll as they have. They have gold glovers, all stars and an otherworldly talent on the roster. Injuries have hurt, the bullpen is a turd on fire and the starters while being question marks have actually performed at or higher than most peoples expectations. That's a recipe for a lot higher than .500 baseball considering how bad the AL is outside of the few top heavy teams.

[floplag]

Players slump, injuries happen, none of that is controllable, granted we've had more than our share this year, but it is what it is. 

Where we failed in my opinion was to control the things we could have, and should have, fixed.

We went into the season with a patchwork bullpen, and the realization that we were playing backups on a daily basis at at least one spot most of the time.  Guys like Valbuena are fine in limited roles, but asking them to play everyday isnt gonna get it done.  However, the bullpen is far and away the most significant failure.

Pujols has been better overall than he was.  Hes still certainly not worth his contract but he was never going to be we all knew that. Statistically hes is over 2 WAR better than last year, you cant ask much more than that while playing pretty solid d more than past years.   Hes never going to be what he was, but hes pulling his weight comparatively speaking.  My only issue there is that he should not be hitting cleanup anymore, he would be fine in the 6 or 7, but in the role we are asking him to play, hes under performing, but then, we dont really have anyone better either. 

Scoscia takes some blame for refusing to adjust the lineups and making a few bizarre pitching changes, but overall i dont think its much.

Ultimately, for me, its the front office.  Bad bullpen, not getting a legit hitter for 1B and the lack of a proper 4th OF.  The result is Valbeuna, Marte, and the random OF weve trotted out there like Young getting far more at bats than they should have ever gotten.  Combine this with the obvious bullpen issues and it comes down to one single thing, roster construction.   That is all on the front office. 

 

[Torridd]

7 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I thought they had playoff potential and I still do but I thought it was as a wildcard.  The reason I didn't think they would win the division is because Houston is the reigning champ and on paper had what I thought was the best team entering the season.  

I don't think many here thought the Angels would win the division. The way they're playing now though they won't get the wild card.

[Torridd]

9 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I can appreciate that, however its too long of a drought to be acceptable. Eppler is turning the farm into a treasure trove of talent, while still staying within a finite budget left by the previous regime so the manager has to be able to work within those same parameters. Unfortunately, at no point over the last 8 years has he had a successful attempt with a variety of players, coaches and circumstances. Its not feasible to me that with as much variety that has been presented that at least 1 combination in an 8 year period would be successful. 2014 they played extremely well and when push came to shove they got steam rolled when strategy and managerial skills are at center stage.

That in a nutshell is why I consider all circumstances at this point excuses. I as a fan don't find it acceptable, I have higher expectations for a franchise with as high of a payroll as they have. They have gold glovers, all stars and an otherworldly talent on the roster. Injuries have hurt, the bullpen is a turd on fire and the starters while being question marks have actually performed at or higher than most peoples expectations. That's a recipe for a lot higher than .500 baseball considering how bad the AL is outside of the few top heavy teams.

You really think another manager could have done much better?

[Torridd]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

Players slump, injuries happen, none of that is controllable, granted we've had more than our share this year, but it is what it is. 

Where we failed in my opinion was to control the things we could have, and should have, fixed.

We went into the season with a patchwork bullpen, and the realization that we were playing backups on a daily basis at at least one spot most of the time.  Guys like Valbuena are fine in limited roles, but asking them to play everyday isnt gonna get it done.  However, the bullpen is far and away the most significant failure.

Pujols has been better overall than he was.  Hes still certainly not worth his contract but he was never going to be we all knew that. Statistically hes is over 2 WAR better than last year, you cant ask much more than that while playing pretty solid d more than past years.   Hes never going to be what he was, but hes pulling his weight comparatively speaking.  My only issue there is that he should not be hitting cleanup anymore, he would be fine in the 6 or 7, but in the role we are asking him to play, hes under performing, but then, we dont really have anyone better either. 

Scoscia takes some blame for refusing to adjust the lineups and making a few bizarre pitching changes, but overall i dont think its much.

Ultimately, for me, its the front office.  Bad bullpen, not getting a legit hitter for 1B and the lack of a proper 4th OF.  The result is Valbeuna, Marte, and the random OF weve trotted out there like Young getting far more at bats than they should have ever gotten.  Combine this with the obvious bullpen issues and it comes down to one single thing, roster construction.   That is all on the front office. 

 

Totally agree.

[mulwin444]

54 minutes ago, Torridd said:

But how do you rebuild the BP without making a trade? It seems like Eppler has dredged the minors for any help on that front and come up with mud. I don't know if we can improve it within the organization.

Not saying you don't make a trade...I'm saying you don't trade Adell and Canning for Wade Davis as a solution.

There is a temptation to "overcorrect" but sometimes the best trades are the ones you didn't make

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

this is exactly what I tell my gf 

just wait till she starts tanking...

[mulwin444]

27 minutes ago, floplag said:

Players slump, injuries happen, none of that is controllable, granted we've had more than our share this year, but it is what it is. 

Where we failed in my opinion was to control the things we could have, and should have, fixed.

We went into the season with a patchwork bullpen, and the realization that we were playing backups on a daily basis at at least one spot most of the time.  Guys like Valbuena are fine in limited roles, but asking them to play everyday isnt gonna get it done.  However, the bullpen is far and away the most significant failure.

Pujols has been better overall than he was.  Hes still certainly not worth his contract but he was never going to be we all knew that. Statistically hes is over 2 WAR better than last year, you cant ask much more than that while playing pretty solid d more than past years.   Hes never going to be what he was, but hes pulling his weight comparatively speaking.  My only issue there is that he should not be hitting cleanup anymore, he would be fine in the 6 or 7, but in the role we are asking him to play, hes under performing, but then, we dont really have anyone better either. 

Scoscia takes some blame for refusing to adjust the lineups and making a few bizarre pitching changes, but overall i dont think its much.

Ultimately, for me, its the front office.  Bad bullpen, not getting a legit hitter for 1B and the lack of a proper 4th OF.  The result is Valbeuna, Marte, and the random OF weve trotted out there like Young getting far more at bats than they should have ever gotten.  Combine this with the obvious bullpen issues and it comes down to one single thing, roster construction.   That is all on the front office. 

 

Valbuena wasn't never meant to be fulltime player...Cozart at 3B, Ohtani at DH, Pujols at 1B meant limited time role.  Then, Cozart and Ohtani went down with injuries so, now, he gets leaned on.  What legit 1B hitter should they have put on the bench waiting for Ohtani/Pujols to have a day off.

Also, 4th outfielders, by definition, are not great, it's why they are 4th OFers...good for limited times but easily exposed.

As for the line-up, check who we started against Price...who should hit clean-up instead of Pujols?

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Valbuena wasn't never meant to be fulltime player...Cozart at 3B, Ohtani at DH, Pujols at 1B meant limited time role.  Then, Cozart and Ohtani went down with injuries so, now, he gets leaned on.  What legit 1B hitter should they have put on the bench waiting for Ohtani/Pujols to have a day off.

Also, 4th outfielders, by definition, are not great, it's why they are 4th OFers...good for limited times but easily exposed.

As for the line-up, check who we started against Price...who should hit clean-up instead of Pujols?

Agreed on Valbuena, and there were many many options floated here in the off season for that spot as options.  To be honest most of them havent exactly lit things up in hindsight but still, it was very clear from the beginning that Valbuena would be getting far more at bats than he should even if people hadnt gotten hurt.   My personal fav was Moustakis to play primary 1B and 3B and then become full time 3B in '19, obviously that didnt happen. 

We have Eric Young under contract, but not on the ML roster, he did pretty well  last year when called on and yet we havent seen him at all this year.   Does anyone actually think he wouldnt be better than what weve run out there? 

The last question is the real doozy, yes, injuries have hurt us bad, especially on SP, but this same guy who got hammered last night didnt do too poorly in his first start after all.   Should he be there at all, no, but who the hell could have predicted us going to the bottom bitch as fast as we have. 

The real issue is who would i bat cleanup instead of Pujols, and the answer is nobody at least within the confines of how Scoscia is determined to put the roster.    If it were up to me i would bat Simmons in the top third since he has the second highest OBP of our starters behind Trout,  move Trout to 3, Upton at the 4, but for whatever reason Sven seems determined to have Simmons no higher than 5 or 6 at any given time leaving us no real choice in the matter.  This is one of those things that fully on Scoscia.   

[Mark68]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

PED's

We can rebuild them. We have the technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA

[Torridd]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Agreed on Valbuena, and there were many many options floated here in the off season for that spot as options.  To be honest most of them havent exactly lit things up in hindsight but still, it was very clear from the beginning that Valbuena would be getting far more at bats than he should even if people hadnt gotten hurt.   My personal fav was Moustakis to play primary 1B and 3B and then become full time 3B in '19, obviously that didnt happen. 

We have Eric Young under contract, but not on the ML roster, he did pretty well  last year when called on and yet we havent seen him at all this year.   Does anyone actually think he wouldnt be better than what weve run out there? 

The last question is the real doozy, yes, injuries have hurt us bad, especially on SP, but this same guy who got hammered last night didnt do too poorly in his first start after all.   Should he be there at all, no, but who the hell could have predicted us going to the bottom bitch as fast as we have. 

The real issue is who would i bat cleanup instead of Pujols, and the answer is nobody at least within the confines of how Scoscia is determined to put the roster.    If it were up to me i would bat Simmons in the top third since he has the second highest OBP of our starters behind Trout,  move Trout to 3, Upton at the 4, but for whatever reason Sven seems determined to have Simmons no higher than 5 or 6 at any given time leaving us no real choice in the matter.  This is one of those things that fully on Scoscia.   

A lot of people talk about this player batting fifth or 7th, but ultimately I don't think it matters much. Let's say our best 4 players batted 1-4 it just means 5-9 are that much lousier.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

A lot of the blame is on Albert Pujols 

He's just one of several underachieving at the plate.   But his salary makes it stand out that much more.

Offense being disjointed, starting pitching still getting over missing a lot of the past 2-3 seasons, Eppler's inability to address the bullpen, they all come into play. 

Best thing now is to ride out this season, get enough of the DL'd guys back, start seeing the influx of farm talent arrive, jettison Kinsler/Valbuena/Johnson after the season if not sooner, have Cozart/Calhoun actually hit like they did even two years ago, and add 1-2 relievers.   Then, 2019 could well be that year to return to at least the WC game.   Seattle isn't going to keep playing like this in 2019, too many starting pitching questions and lineup beginning to age some.  

[mulwin444]

16 minutes ago, floplag said:

Agreed on Valbuena, and there were many many options floated here in the off season for that spot as options.  To be honest most of them havent exactly lit things up in hindsight but still, it was very clear from the beginning that Valbuena would be getting far more at bats than he should even if people hadnt gotten hurt.   My personal fav was Moustakis to play primary 1B and 3B and then become full time 3B in '19, obviously that didnt happen. 

We have Eric Young under contract, but not on the ML roster, he did pretty well  last year when called on and yet we havent seen him at all this year.   Does anyone actually think he wouldnt be better than what weve run out there? 

The last question is the real doozy, yes, injuries have hurt us bad, especially on SP, but this same guy who got hammered last night didnt do too poorly in his first start after all.   Should he be there at all, no, but who the hell could have predicted us going to the bottom bitch as fast as we have. 

The real issue is who would i bat cleanup instead of Pujols, and the answer is nobody at least within the confines of how Scoscia is determined to put the roster.    If it were up to me i would bat Simmons in the top third since he has the second highest OBP of our starters behind Trout,  move Trout to 3, Upton at the 4, but for whatever reason Sven seems determined to have Simmons no higher than 5 or 6 at any given time leaving us no real choice in the matter.  This is one of those things that fully on Scoscia.   

Line-up construction (the order in which place hitters) has been found to have little impact on scoring as much as THE hitters in the line-up, regardless of order...meaning it doesn't matter much in which order you shuffle the turds, they are still turds and still won't score that much.

Personally, I'd have this line-up:

1) Simmons SS

2) Trout CF

3) Upton LF

4) Pujols DH

5) Kinsler 2B

6) Maldonado C

7) Calhoun/Young/Hermosillo RF

8 ) Valbuena/JMF 1B

9) Fletcher 3B

That line-up is still ugly but what are the options?  Anything beyond Upton is a crap-shoot but you hope once around the line-up, Fletcher and Simmons batting 9-1 gives Trout a chance to hit with someone on base.  Other than hope, though, that's kinda it...

[T.G.]

Is it me or does this guy look like Ian Kinsler..

[floplag]

25 minutes ago, Torridd said:

A lot of people talk about this player batting fifth or 7th, but ultimately I don't think it matters much. Let's say our best 4 players batted 1-4 it just means 5-9 are that much lousier.

It also means Trout/Upton are hitting fewer solo HRs.  In general, yes i agree, but putting guys on base in front of the power hitters makes far more sense than behind them where it takes 3 hits to score anyone. 

[floplag]

18 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Line-up construction (the order in which place hitters) has been found to have little impact on scoring as much as THE hitters in the line-up, regardless of order...meaning it doesn't matter much in which order you shuffle the turds, they are still turds and still won't score that much.

Personally, I'd have this line-up:

1) Simmons SS

2) Trout CF

3) Upton LF

4) Pujols DH

5) Kinsler 2B

6) Maldonado C

7) Calhoun/Young/Hermosillo RF

8 ) Valbuena/JMF 1B

9) Fletcher 3B

That line-up is still ugly but what are the options?  Anything beyond Upton is a crap-shoot but you hope once around the line-up, Fletcher and Simmons batting 9-1 gives Trout a chance to hit with someone on base.  Other than hope, though, that's kinda it...

Again in general i agree,  but the one constant in this is having guys on base for the producers.  Right now that means Trout/Upton.  Having out highest OBP guys batting behind them doesnt make a lot of sense to me.  

Regarding your list, i could live with that, Kinsler has pop so the 5 works.  There isnt much to do about the bottom but man it sure feeels like our power guys are hitting too many solo shots and we leave way too many guys on base at the back of the order where it takes more hits strung together to actually score.  Thats non scientific mind you, just my impression. 

I think i would still put Kinsler in the top 2, then go Trout, Upton, Pujols in the 5.  The rest im fine with though i hope Calhoun can get back to being worthy of a 5 or 6 slot.   For that matter, I might even give Fletcher a  shot up in the top 2, lets find out what he can really do, in that case i would bump Kinsler to the 5 and go with Simmons/Fletcher in the top 2.   

[stormngt]

45 minutes ago, floplag said:

Agreed on Valbuena, and there were many many options floated here in the off season for that spot as options.  To be honest most of them havent exactly lit things up in hindsight but still, it was very clear from the beginning that Valbuena would be getting far more at bats than he should even if people hadnt gotten hurt.   My personal fav was Moustakis to play primary 1B and 3B and then become full time 3B in '19, obviously that didnt happen. 

We have Eric Young under contract, but not on the ML roster, he did pretty well  last year when called on and yet we havent seen him at all this year.   Does anyone actually think he wouldnt be better than what weve run out there? 

The last question is the real doozy, yes, injuries have hurt us bad, especially on SP, but this same guy who got hammered last night didnt do too poorly in his first start after all.   Should he be there at all, no, but who the hell could have predicted us going to the bottom bitch as fast as we have. 

The real issue is who would i bat cleanup instead of Pujols, and the answer is nobody at least within the confines of how Scoscia is determined to put the roster.    If it were up to me i would bat Simmons in the top third since he has the second highest OBP of our starters behind Trout,  move Trout to 3, Upton at the 4, but for whatever reason Sven seems determined to have Simmons no higher than 5 or 6 at any given time leaving us no real choice in the matter.  This is one of those things that fully on Scoscia.   

Yes our team is really shitty because Simmons isn't batting two spots higher and Pujols one spot lower! Personally I like Simmons batting 2nd.  But you guys put too much blame on Pujols batting 4th over 5th.  

[floplag]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Yes our team is really shitty because Simmons isn't batting two spots higher and Pujols one spot lower! Personally I like Simmons batting 2nd.  But you guys put too much blame on Pujols batting 4th over 5th.  

pretty sure i said earlier this was a very small part of the issues, but sarcasm away we all need to vent. 

[Angelsfan1984]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

You really think another manager could have done much better?

We don't know because we've been watching the same episode for 18 years.

[Angel Oracle]

While power is up throughout MLB, it's crazy how team OBP's have dropped in the past decade.  

In 2009, all but TWO AL teams had at least a .329 OBP.    In 2018 so far, a .329 team OBP would be third in the AL. 

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Again in general i agree,  but the one constant in this is having guys on base for the producers.  Right now that means Trout/Upton.  Having out highest OBP guys batting behind them doesnt make a lot of sense to me.  

Regarding your list, i could live with that, Kinsler has pop so the 5 works.  There isnt much to do about the bottom but man it sure feeels like our power guys are hitting too many solo shots and we leave way too many guys on base at the back of the order where it takes more hits strung together to actually score.  Thats non scientific mind you, just my impression. 

I think i would still put Kinsler in the top 2, then go Trout, Upton, Pujols in the 5.  The rest im fine with though i hope Calhoun can get back to being worthy of a 5 or 6 slot.   For that matter, I might even give Fletcher a  shot up in the top 2, lets find out what he can really do, in that case i would bump Kinsler to the 5 and go with Simmons/Fletcher in the top 2.   

Simmons has the highest OBP percentage (.372 OBP) of anyone not named Trout, Upton has the highest SLG and OPS (.495 SLG and .795 OPS) of anyone not named Trout and Pujols has the highest SLG and OPS (.408 SLG and .690 OPS) of anyone not named Simmons, Trout and Upton and it gets to leverage his one strength, as minor as it might be - hitting with men on base:

Is it perfect?  No, but I think it maximizes the on-base opportunities and run producing opportunities.  Still, the line-up as it stands now, is a shit-show.

5 through 8 everyone else they can throw out there has an OBP below .300, an OPS below .700, and OPS+ below 100.  

At 9, David Fletcher has show, initially, a knack for getting on base via hit and just took his first BB.  

[Angel Oracle]

Fletcher, Simba, Trout, Upton, Pujols, Kinsler, Valbuena, Machete, Calhoun