06/23/2018 GDT - Scoiscia died. All noobs in lineup

[Angels#1Fan]

10 hours ago, The Boogie Man said:

Upton and Phillips came last year.  

Strad, when our pitchers started dropping like flies a couple of years ago we got virtually nothing in the way of replacements or help.

Shoemaker went down twice..who did we get?

Heaney went down..who did we get?

Trop went down..who did we get?

Skaggs went down..who did we get?

Street went down and was replaced by Bedrock and then he went down and was replaced by Bud Norris a blowout patch that actually pitched ok for a short time and when he became ineffective there was nothing!

Even the most casual fan knew that our bullpen was suspect during the off season, so what did the organization do to address this glaring problem? Answer..nothing. The Angels did just what they've been doing..they stood pat with a crappy bullpen that is burying us with many late inning blown games so far!

Richards went down a couple of times, who did the front office go out and get to take his place?

Ohtani went down what has the front office done to address this? Answer, the same thing they've been doing for several years when players go down..nothing! 

Etc Etc Etc.

Chone Figgins left..who replaced him at third base? Answer..several years have passed and we're still waiting for a third baseman.

Howie Kendrick was traded for Heaney who did we get to play second base? Answer no one! We've tried to replace injured players or players that left with minor leaguers that were a part of one of the worst systems in the league at the time that were of little or no help at all.

During the off season the starting rotation had many question marks because of so many players returning from TJ surgery..what help did we get? Answer none the Angels stood pat with an injury plagued starting rotation.

And on and on it goes.

OK, you're right we did sign Upton.

 

 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

For starters, Soria can’t cost a lot.   Granted, he may be a rental due to the team option of $10 million for 2019.  He has the extensive closing experience.  

Not as much now, but in the upcoming off-season for starters, he can sign Herrera and not lose a 2nd round pick due to mid-season trade.  He can also convert some of those 3rd through 10th round pick college pitchers to relief.

This org has ZERO late innings relievers.   After 2.5 years, that’s on Billy.

Most of all, this org needs to STAT reverse the 10 years of mostly bad late innings bullpen work.

Important thing is, they have now built org depth.   Except for true rentals, they need to start using a little of it and not be like stand pat Stoneman while also not being like deplete the farm Dip*ssy.

This

We've known this for quite a while and done virtually nothing to address it.

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Strad, when our pitchers started dropping like flies a couple of years ago we got virtually nothing in the way of replacements or help.

Shoemaker went down twice..who did we get?

Heaney went down..who did we get?

Trop went down..who did we get?

Skaggs went down..who did we get?

Street went down and was replaced by Bedrock and then he went down and was replaced by Bud Norris a blowout patch that actually pitched ok for a short time and when he became ineffective there was nothing!

Even the most casual fan knew that our bullpen was suspect during the off season, so what did the organization do to address this glaring problem? Answer..nothing. The Angels did just what they've been doing..they stood pat with a crappy bullpen that is burying us with many late inning blown games so far!

Richards went down a couple of times, who did the front office go out and get to take his place?

Ohtani went down what has the front office done to address this? Answer, the same thing they've been doing for several years when players go down..nothing! 

Etc Etc Etc.

Chone Figgins left..who replaced him at third base? Answer..several years have passed and we're still waiting for a third baseman.

Howie Kendrick was traded for Heaney who did we get to play second base? Answer no one! We've tried to replace injured players or players that left with minor leaguers that were a part of one of the worst systems in the league at the time that were of little or no help at all.

During the off season the starting rotation had many question marks because of so many players returning from TJ surgery..what help did we get? Answer none the Angels stood pat with an injury plagued starting rotation.

And on and on it goes.

OK, you're right we did sign Upton.

 

 

I see your point, this is a rebuild.   It takes years to build a farm.  That being said when you have that many injuries what are you supposed to do?  You can’t really replace them all, without continually mortgaging the future.  They’ll trade for some bullpen arms as long as we stay close, when the price comes down.   I don’t really want to argue whether that’s the right thing to do or not.  None of us know what the cost is, but I can tell you that as of now Eppler sees the price as too high.  As for replacing Figgins or Howie, well I’m pretty positive our replacements for Figgy out produced Figgy in Seattle.  Also they sold high on Howie and got a very good young starting pitcher.  They created one hole but got back Heaney, nothing wrong with that.  

[Angels#1Fan]

2 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

I see your point, this is a rebuild.   It takes years to build a farm.  That being said when you have that many injuries what are you supposed to do?  You can’t really replace them all, without continually mortgaging the future.  They’ll trade for some bullpen arms as long as we stay close, when the price comes down.   I don’t really want to argue whether that’s the right thing to do or not.  None of us know what the cost is, but I can tell you that as of now Eppler sees the price as too high.  As for replacing Figgins or Howie, well I’m pretty positive our replacements for Figgy out produced Figgy in Seattle.  Also they sold high on Howie and got a very good young starting pitcher.  They created one hole but got back Heaney, nothing wrong with that.  

Strad, over the course of a couple of years we have lost the equivalent of an entire starting rotation that was already devoid of a true # 1. We haven't had a true number one starter since Weavers last good season several years ago. Richards was supposed to be that guy but it hasn't worked out. It's no ones fault for some of the injuries to our rotation but there comes a point that in order for the franchise to move forward a move needs to happen. It's been rumored that the Mets are shopping DeGrom and Snydergaard..will the Angels make any effort to land one of these guys? Will we "stand pat" a while longer? For those that say we can't weaken the minor leagues by trading any more talent, I say WHAT TALENT?  Are we afraid to give up some minor leaguers for a proven ML starter?

I realize the problems with our entire pitching staff can't be addressed all at once but DO SOMETHING. We are treading water with people that can't go more than 5 innings due to either pitch counts that are a result of injuries or pitchers that just plain and simple aren't good enough. Our bullpen is killing us in the late innings. This just can't continue to go on as is.

[Dick B Back]

Back to the same old thing... how does anyone know Eppler is not trying to do something?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Strad, over the course of a couple of years we have lost the equivalent of an entire starting rotation that was already devoid of a true # 1. We haven't had a true number one starter since Weavers last good season several years ago. Richards was supposed to be that guy but it hasn't worked out. It's no ones fault for some of the injuries to our rotation but there comes a point that in order for the franchise to move forward a move needs to happen. It's been rumored that the Mets are shopping DeGrom and Snydergaard..will the Angels make any effort to land one of these guys? Will we "stand pat" a while longer? For those that say we can't weaken the minor leagues by trading any more talent, I say WHAT TALENT?  Are we afraid to give up some minor leaguers for a proven ML starter?

I realize the problems with our entire pitching staff can't be addressed all at once but DO SOMETHING. We are treading water with people that can't go more than 5 innings due to either pitch counts that are a result of injuries or pitchers that just plain and simple aren't good enough. Our bullpen is killing us in the late innings. This just can't continue to go on as is.

Oh I would absolutely give up minor league talent for a front of the rotation starter like DeGrom or Syndergaard.  Will they Angels, I have no idea.  With health I think Ohtani is an ace, but he was an unexpected surprise signing.  I am hoping Canning will be that type of pitcher, but I’ve read on here he is more likely a solid number 2 starter.  I’m not the guy that has all of the minor league numbers in front of me or the adavanced knowledge of how our guys are doing compared to their peers or at their age, but it certainly seems as though our farm is coming in hot and has made huge strides.  This year, I would be adding arms that could be used for this year and the future if I was going to add at all.  If I was Eppler and I had a game plan that involved getting back to developing our own talent and use that talent to either build the current team or traded for pieces to build that team, I would stick with that plan and not panic and overpay for a rental.  I would pay for a rental, but not with anyone that has the upside of being an everyday starter in the near future.  What would really suck is trading someone like Canning (plus a few more prospects) and get Syndergaard only to have him be injured like the rest of our starters.  It just seems like the pitchers with electric stuff have a very short life span these days.  I truly don’t know what the answer is.

[Stradling]

Just now, Dick B Back said:

Back to the same old thing... how does anyone know Eppler is not trying to do something?

there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Eppler is trying to improve the team.  When he was talking about the draft he said “the process will direct them who to draft”.  My belief is they have set a value for each player they are interested in, and “the process will dictate who to pull the trigger on”.  

[Angels#1Fan]

16 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Oh I would absolutely give up minor league talent for a front of the rotation starter like DeGrom or Syndergaard.  Will they Angels, I have no idea.  With health I think Ohtani is an ace, but he was an unexpected surprise signing.  I am hoping Canning will be that type of pitcher, but I’ve read on here he is more likely a solid number 2 starter.  I’m not the guy that has all of the minor league numbers in front of me or the adavanced knowledge of how our guys are doing compared to their peers or at their age, but it certainly seems as though our farm is coming in hot and has made huge strides.  This year, I would be adding arms that could be used for this year and the future if I was going to add at all.  If I was Eppler and I had a game plan that involved getting back to developing our own talent and use that talent to either build the current team or traded for pieces to build that team, I would stick with that plan and not panic and overpay for a rental.  I would pay for a rental, but not with anyone that has the upside of being an everyday starter in the near future.  What would really suck is trading someone like Canning (plus a few more prospects) and get Syndergaard only to have him be injured like the rest of our starters.  It just seems like the pitchers with electric stuff have a very short life span these days.  I truly don’t know what the answer is.

I agree with just about every thing you said but we just can't be afraid to make some kind of move, otherwise we just stay where we are and more time just passes with a marginally talented and injury prone starting rotation and bullpen.

I wish I knew the answer also because the frustration level isn't getting any better at this point. I'm afraid the season is spiraling towards another mediocre finish that will leave the Angels in the middle of the pack without any good draft picks that can help in the future.

BTW..I wouldn't be interested in any high priced rentals either. That usually winds up being a waste.

 

[WeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Strad, over the course of a couple of years we have lost the equivalent of an entire starting rotation that was already devoid of a true # 1. We haven't had a true number one starter since Weavers last good season several years ago. Richards was supposed to be that guy but it hasn't worked out. It's no ones fault for some of the injuries to our rotation but there comes a point that in order for the franchise to move forward a move needs to happen. It's been rumored that the Mets are shopping DeGrom and Snydergaard..will the Angels make any effort to land one of these guys? Will we "stand pat" a while longer? For those that say we can't weaken the minor leagues by trading any more talent, I say WHAT TALENT?  Are we afraid to give up some minor leaguers for a proven ML starter?

I realize the problems with our entire pitching staff can't be addressed all at once but DO SOMETHING. We are treading water with people that can't go more than 5 innings due to either pitch counts that are a result of injuries or pitchers that just plain and simple aren't good enough. Our bullpen is killing us in the late innings. This just can't continue to go on as is.

Maybe the time is to go after one of these type pitchers? I hate to mortgage the farm but we have a surplus of outfielders, and this makes us an instant contender for the Wild Card spot and a real chance of winning it while facing either Sale or Severino. 

 

But truthfully this winter was a no win situation for Billy Eppler. Who panned out that we’re available? Wade Davis? He still was too pricey. Our next best bet would have been Bud Norris, and nobody wanted him on this board.

To me we need to pull the trigger on Britton ASAP. His stock is low and is exactly what we need, and is another lefty. 

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

For starters, Soria can’t cost a lot.   Granted, he may be a rental due to the team option of $10 million for 2019.  He has the extensive closing experience.  

ok, so what will Soria cost? how many other teams are talking to KC about him and what are they offering? does KC want their "not very much" more than they want ours? have they had their eye on a particular lower level player from a different organization? what are KCs organizational needs? 

it really isn't as simple as saying:"we need Player X. offer them "not so much", Billy, and he's ours" 

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

This org has ZERO late innings relievers.   After 2.5 years, that’s on Billy.

Wrong. In 2016, Street was coming off a 51 save season. he was lights out the first month of the 2016 before getting injured. he was expected to return - and did a month later. Unfortunately, he sucked upon his return and was shut down in late July.

At this point of the season last year, Norris had an era under 3 as our closer. 

we also had very little in terms of assets to acquire a proven closer until this year.

 

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Shoemaker went down twice..who did we get?

 Heaney went down..who did we get?

Trop went down..who did we get?

Skaggs went down..who did we get

we had depth.Heaney and Skaggs are back and are in the top 16 in the league in ERA. you don't just run out and get another player when someone gets hurt. 

btw, our starters also have the 3rd lowest ERA in the league. 

[Angel Oracle]

45 minutes ago, Lou said:

ok, so what will Soria cost? how many other teams are talking to KC about him and what are they offering? does KC want their "not very much" more than they want ours? have they had their eye on a particular lower level player from a different organization? what are KCs organizational needs? 

it really isn't as simple as saying:"we need Player X. offer them "not so much", Billy, and he's ours" 

Wrong. In 2016, Street was coming off a 51 save season. he was lights out the first month of the 2016 before getting injured. he was expected to return - and did a month later. Unfortunately, he sucked upon his return and was shut down in late July.

At this point of the season last year, Norris had an era under 3 as our closer. 

we also had very little in terms of assets to acquire a proven closer until this year.

 

Good point, which begs the question why he didn’t bring Norris back.   Yes, he did have the 2-3 weeks struggle, but otherwise was solid.  

Petit has fallen back some, admittedly.  I am hoping that Noe Ramirez is getting to just about filling that 2017 version of Petit’s multiple innings role.  He has the K’s and the decent enough ERA, but isn’t a true end of game guy.

I get the volatility with bullpens.   But it seems like Billy is trying to go too cheap with constructing them.  

And while I understand that signings can backfire, Iike Wade Davis has although Coors Canaveral contributes to that, is being too cheap with bullpens the best path to take long term?

I assume they will work to convert a few of those college pitchers from rounds 3-13 into relief pitchers?   There is less bullpen depth than starting pitcher depth on the farm.

[Lou]

this loss was on Briceno and his horrible pitch calling