The perception that the bottom of our lineup is bad

[Docwaukee]

Our 6th - 9th hitters have a wRC+ of 91 which is good for 6th in the AL.  It also means that the entire group has only been 9% below the league avg hitter.  

This is brought down considerably by Kole's early struggles with wRC+ and AL rank for each spot as follows:

6th - 88 (11th)
7th - 122 (1st)
8th - 67 (9th)
9th - 87 (4th)

Just in case anyone asks, we have a 120 wRC+ for hitters 1-5.  Ranked 5th in the AL.  

1st - 88 (12th)
2nd - 201 (1st duh)
3rd - 119 (7th)
4th - 98 (9th)
5th - 96 (9th)

just some food for thought.  

 

[krAbs]

Who has been killing it in the 7 slot? That has to be Simmons bringing that number up, right?

[tdawg87]

It's. The. Bullpen.

[Taylor]

You should repost this as the second post of every GDT.

[Angel Oracle]

Looking at the box scores, theee are a lot of crap bottom thirds of the order in the AL.

[T.G.]

Offenses are generally bad league wide, aren't they?

[floplag]

the perception hat this teams issues are anything other than bullpen is in my view invalid.  
Yes, we have other possible concerns, but that is far and away the most critical.

[101halo]

How do our 6-9 in the bullpen stack up? 

[stormngt]

Now if the bottom of the order is not as bad as we thought, and if our bullpen is not as bad as we thought (different thread) than why are we under 500 after our 13-3 start?

[arch stanton]

7 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Now if the bottom of the order is not as bad as we thought, and if our bullpen is not as bad as we thought (different thread) than why are we under 500 after our 13-3 start?

They’re not under.500. They’re 41-35

[stormngt]

18 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

They’re not under.500. They’re 41-35

  26 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Now if the bottom of the order is not as bad as we thought, and if our bullpen is not as bad as we thought (different thread) than why are we under 500 after our 13-3 start?

 

Need to work on your reading comprehension 

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

  26 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Now if the bottom of the order is not as bad as we thought, and if our bullpen is not as bad as we thought (different thread) than why are we under 500 after our 13-3 start?

 

Need to work on your reading comprehension 

You need to make a point worth making. Those stats include the first 16 games so why dismiss them? The team is 41-35 and 3-0 in the last 3

[stormngt]

39 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

You need to make a point worth making. Those stats include the first 16 games so why dismiss them? The team is 41-35 and 3-0 in the last 3

My Gid your too obtuse to waste time explaining.  Have a good night!

[Lou]

45 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

You need to make a point worth making. Those stats include the first 16 games so why dismiss them? The team is 41-35 and 3-0 in the last 3

our wins don't count 

[UndertheHalo]

I’m not sure how anyone can follow the Angels more then causally and come the conclusion that the offense isn’t shit.  Sure, there are bunch of shitty teams in baseball.  How about we compare ourselves to the good ones.  The Angels have a problem with the line up.  The objective is to win the division and win a championship.  We aren’t beating the good teams with this line up.  

And yes, the bullpen is also shit.  That can be more easily corrected.

[DJO]

Hi everybody - long time Angel fan - first time posting .

Has the bullpen been pitching poorly -sure has . Do we lay it all on the bullpen ?

I saw the stats about how the Angels perform through the batting order - interesting stat . I choose to go by run production . With this lineup -with these names I would expect more runs crossing the plate .

Losing tonight 4-1 - if we look at the last 39 games - the Angels have scored 3 runs or less 22 of those last 39 games .  That is an enormous burden to expect this staff to shut down opposing teams to 2 runs or less in those games . And you give exception to the starters ? We don't have an ace on this squad !  We have guys who can't get into the sixth inning on a regular basis - can't seem to get out of innings without throwing 20 plus pitches . The high pitch count is high causing early bullpen help - thus taxing the bullpen too often  and too early in the season . Its like a vicious circle .

Donnelly , Weber , Shields , Percival and later K-Rod were lights out . If you weren't leading  the Angels after 6 innings - you weren't beating the Angels .

Do you remember the starters ? Nobody HOF -just guys who gave you good quality starts AND innings . Those guys gave the team 6 plus innings on a nightly basis AND in a steroid era when the players were jacked .  We get less performance from todays starters -in a supposedly steroid watched period .

[Docwaukee]

11 hours ago, DJO said:

Hi everybody - long time Angel fan - first time posting .

Has the bullpen been pitching poorly -sure has . Do we lay it all on the bullpen ?

I saw the stats about how the Angels perform through the batting order - interesting stat . I choose to go by run production . With this lineup -with these names I would expect more runs crossing the plate .

Losing tonight 4-1 - if we look at the last 39 games - the Angels have scored 3 runs or less 22 of those last 39 games .  That is an enormous burden to expect this staff to shut down opposing teams to 2 runs or less in those games . And you give exception to the starters ? We don't have an ace on this squad !  We have guys who can't get into the sixth inning on a regular basis - can't seem to get out of innings without throwing 20 plus pitches . The high pitch count is high causing early bullpen help - thus taxing the bullpen too often  and too early in the season . Its like a vicious circle .

Donnelly , Weber , Shields , Percival and later K-Rod were lights out . If you weren't leading  the Angels after 6 innings - you weren't beating the Angels .

Do you remember the starters ? Nobody HOF -just guys who gave you good quality starts AND innings . Those guys gave the team 6 plus innings on a nightly basis AND in a steroid era when the players were jacked .  We get less performance from todays starters -in a supposedly steroid watched period .

Welcome aboard and good first post.  

the 2002 starters had something the the current team doesn't and the last 3 years have not.  Health.  They needed 6 starters all season with Shields making one spot start.  

We've used 11 starters already this year. 

It's also a different era.  It's funny to say, but the game has evolved since 2002.  Not saying that's a good thing but we are seeing fewer innings per start in general right now with more max effort by all pitchers and less exposure to multiple times through the order.   Starters are throwing half an inning less per start now.  That's an extra 80 innings from the pen per year.  

You also very much cherry picked that 39 game stretch to emphasis the 3 runs or less stat.  Starting it during a bad run where we had 8 games in a row of 3 runs or less and won only 2 of them.  

Over the last 30 days, the offense has been solid.  Mostly because of Trout.  I agree the offense has under performed some, but not catastrophically so.  The SP has been very good.  You can't put every game on the pen, but way more that there should have been considering that Eppler knew this team's SP would lack innings.  

[DJO]

On 6/24/2018 at 1:23 PM, Dochalo said:

Welcome aboard and good first post.  

the 2002 starters had something the the current team doesn't and the last 3 years have not.  Health.  They needed 6 starters all season with Shields making one spot start.  

We've used 11 starters already this year. 

It's also a different era.  It's funny to say, but the game has evolved since 2002.  Not saying that's a good thing but we are seeing fewer innings per start in general right now with more max effort by all pitchers and less exposure to multiple times through the order.   Starters are throwing half an inning less per start now.  That's an extra 80 innings from the pen per year.  

You also very much cherry picked that 39 game stretch to emphasis the 3 runs or less stat.  Starting it during a bad run where we had 8 games in a row of 3 runs or less and won only 2 of them.  

Over the last 30 days, the offense has been solid.  Mostly because of Trout.  I agree the offense has under performed some, but not catastrophically so.  The SP has been very good.  You can't put every game on the pen, but way more that there should have been considering that Eppler knew this team's SP would lack innings.  

Perhaps it was cherry picking on my part -I went back to see when the ship sprung a leak . But that hole hasn't been fixed . After the Angels awesome start 13-3 , they have gone 28-35 , in those last 63 games they have scored 3 runs or less 34 games . Two runs or less in 24 of those games . And if you would like to cite more recent , the last 30 games , they have scored 3 runs or less 14 times .   THAT is not a good offense - that is the west coast version of the NY Mets .  

You would say they've underperformed some ? 

Calhoun is batting .165 . --- Valbuena .217 ,  Cozzy .219 , Kinsler .212 -- four guys batting low with a terrible under .300 on base percentage .. Pujois is batting .250 with more pop this year than last but his on base is under .300 ..

Forget total payroll -forget what the pitchers make - what do the Angels spend on their positional players and the run production they give and what does Oakland pay for that virtually no name offense and why have they scored more runs than us ??? 

The Angels track record with free agents over the last decade has been frighteningly bad .

And the question that scares me most is why in the world would Mike Trout want to stay ?  

You know what else sucks ? I live in NY and stay up until 1:00 in the morning to watch these games - to watch Calhoun and Valbuena stand in the batters box with virtually nobody 40 feet from the third base line or LF line and neither of them can drop a ball down the line .    Unbelievable !

 

 

[Dick B Back]

On 6/26/2018 at 7:17 AM, DJO said:

The Angels track record with free agents over the last decade has been frighteningly bad .

 

Not just the last decade my friend, this franchise has decades of expertise in signing crap free agents.

The only good ones I can think of off the top of my head are Grich, Baylor, Vlad and Torii.

One could go on for days listing the bad ones.

[Angel Oracle]

The 2004 FA class was rock solid (Vlad, Colon, Escobar, Guillen), EXCEPT for Guillen losing it late in the 2004 season after driving in over 100 runs.

Since then, outside of Torii, pretty much a D grade. 

[Docwaukee]

31 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

Not just the last decade my friend, this franchise has decades of expertise in signing crap free agents.

The only good ones I can think of off the top of my head are Grich, Baylor, Vlad and Torii.

One could go on for days listing the bad ones.

free agent signings being worth what you pay are the exception and not the rule.  Typically, you hope they bring a solid game for 2-3 seasons with experience etc.

regardless of where we rank, this lineup has certainly underachieved.   

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

The 2004 FA class was rock solid (Vlad, Colon, Escobar, Guillen), EXCEPT for Guillen losing it late in the 2004 season after driving in over 100 runs.

Since then, outside of Torii, pretty much a D grade. 

Colon, Escobar, and Guillen all had problems of some sort...

Escobar - injuries

Colon - never put up the numbers expected

Guillen - dumbass

[DJO]

I've often wondered about other Angel fans feeling about the Jose Guillen fiasco . Or do we call it a debacle ?   

He gets thrown at repeated as does Vlad - and our pitching staff doesn't back them up .  Guillen confronted a few Angel starters and they did nothing . Went to Fat Mike who told him - yea thats not our thing to retaliate .  

Its such a Gandhi-esque  like approach - I didn't realize Mike was such a pacifist - of course he was the ONLY manager who would take that stance - I can't think of one other manager who told his staff to stand off ..On the record of course -we don't retaliate but in actuality ??   It was the first time I began disliking the way he managed .  Its off the point so forgive me - just my two cents .

Guillen threw his helmet after another HBP - the helmet was thrown too hard and reached the dugout and Mike ..

So the team votes him off and we look like shit in the playoffs - but wow -point well made - nobody is better than the team - and Mike you have not done anything since - and we sucked in the playoffs and missed Guillens offense - but I think we all learned a very valuable lesson from our Fat hypocrite manager . The Dodgers staff never purposely plunked batters in his catching days . 

Ok -enough of my rant 

 

[GrittyVeterans]

Does anyone actually believe the bottom of our lineup isn't bad?

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

Colon, Escobar, and Guillen all had problems of some sort...

Escobar - injuries

Colon - never put up the numbers expected

Guillen - dumbass

Crazy that we signed Guillen, who we all remember as an asshole, and a huge dick, the same year we signed colon and escobar.