MLB has a bad baseball problem that's only getting worse

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

Baseball games are way too expensive for the average family man. Every time I read that we need to pay Mike Trout 10 years $400M I cringe. 

I used to attend tons of games but not anymore. Pujols and Hamilton really changed the way I follow baseball. I saved my season ticket to travel to other ballparks every season. Last season was Boston and New York. This season Philadelphia and Baltimore. 

One of the first times I noticed a big jump was after they acquired Vernon wells. The personal pizzas went up to something like 11-12$

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, artesmustache said:

They need to pick up the pace of play, cut back on the k's, electronic strike zone, form one league with same rules and restructure divisions geographically. A division with Angels, Dodgers, Padres, A's and Giants would be a bonanza for attendance and cut back travel costs tremendously. Even swapping out A's and Giants for Dbacks if need be would still work.

Not sure where that would leave Seattle, but it's an interesting idea.

[Ohtaniland]

18 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

One of the first times I noticed a big jump was after they acquired Vernon wells. The personal pizzas went up to something like 11-12$

And big as a pop tart

[Dtwncbad]

The physical game itself is very slow, so the analytics are needed to capture the imagination of fans in a stimulating dissection of all the variables.

The analytics have led to real data about how-to score the most runs, and unfortunately the way to score the most runs is to make the game even more boring physically (strikeout or homerun).

This makes the marketing if the analytics (to supplement the lack of thrill of the physical game action) more important.

Vicious cycle.

If the fans reach an absorbtion max on analytics and the physical game itself ia less visually stimulating, where is the interest and enthusiasm going to come from?

It has to come from context.  More meaningful games with meaningful outcomes.

A 162 game season is going to be the kiss of death.

They have to go to a first and second half.

Two trade deadlines, each at the 50 game mark of its half.

Even a marginal team could get hot for half a season and make the playoffs.

Could you end up with a WS winner that actually was under .500 for the whole season?  Yup.

And that would be a story that would be interesting to the media and fans.  At this point thatvis a small price to pay for saving the sport.

[T.G.]

Years from now, I'm not going to be sitting around talking about Trout's WAR.  I'm going to talk about the things I saw him do on the field with my own two eyes.  I don't think I've ever had conversations about the stats of the guys I've seen - I talk about the things that created actual memories for me. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

The shift needs to be an illegal defense.

[floplag]

The game has a number of problems, though im not sure i fully agree with his definition of bad baseball. 

The game isnt what it once was, thats for certain, with most of our top athletes that were playing baseball in the golden ages now opting for the faster money of the NBA and NFL. 

Add to that a complete loss of fundamentals in virtually ALL pro sports in america.  Something i call the ESPN affect.  Everyone wants to make the highlight reels and lest we forget, chicks dig the long ball.  When you prioritize and glorify the power game, you do the same for the strikeouts game, the 2 tend to go hand in hand.   Would guys like Carew or Gwynn be as  revered today?  IDK. 

And dont get me started on the egos.  OMG he threw inside i have to charge the mound.  Guys standing on top of the plate wearing knights armor acting like they are wearing skirts.    Even in recent generations pitchers took the inside, dont like it tough shit, now... its a brawl. 

The loss of anything resembling the running game, how many guys left can actually steal bases consistently?

Bunting as a dead skill.  Im not talking about 90% of pitching in the NL walking up there giving zero fucks hoping they get one down, im talking bunting for hits, keeping infielders honest so they have to play in the same area code rather than on the outfield grass.  (See espn effect above on that one).

Loss of bat control.  Were obsessed with bat speed, exit velocities... who freaking cares.  When did guys forget how to go the other way or go with the pitch.  Everyone's swinging out of their shoes on every pitch.  Take the damned thing the other way, inside out one, slap it where you want it...  do what the pitch lets you do.  

The shift.  How are teams not countering this?  90% of the time if players actually had most of the items listed above, its a freaking no brainier.  I dont care if i had to bunt every damn at bat, i would do it till they stopped.

Finally... moneyball.  In my opinion it and the utter obsession with stats has absolutely 100% hurt the game.  Its become live action strat-o-matic.  In the very beginning of it people didnt want those players, there were reasons Beane was able to get them for peanuts.  Most of them were not good hitters, but they had a good eye and drew walks, if Ks are boring, walks are 10 times as much so.    

So for me, is it bad baseball, or is it more accurately a reflection on the sports watching community.  Baseball has more or less gone with the flow on this, trying to give the audience what it wants.  Its not unique to baseball, the NBA has devolved into a 3 pt contest with no defense being played, the NFL is run and gun with scripted end zone celebrations.  As for me, i miss the old days, badly.   

[Inside Pitch]

32 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Baseball games are way too expensive for the average family man. Every time I read that we need to pay Mike Trout 10 years $400M I cringe. 

I used to attend tons of games but not anymore. Pujols and Hamilton really changed the way I follow baseball. I saved my season ticket money to travel to other ballparks every season. Last season was Boston and New York. This season Philadelphia and Baltimore. 

The average cost of going to an Angels game in 2012 (after AP) was 159.00 (5th lowest) an 8.4% increase from 2011.  Today it's 194.02 (7th lowest) about $40.00 below the league average.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/202611/fan-cost-index-of-the-major-league-baseball/   I've said this before but given the relative cost cost of living in the area and the team's payroll they are one of baseballs biggest bargains...

Beyond that - when compared to the other big sports, MLB is far and away the biggest bargain in general..   https://public.tableau.com/profile/russell.scibetti#!/vizhome/FanCostIndexAcrossProfessionalSports/ByLeague

 

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I'd lower the mound, institute a pitch clock and institute an electronic strike zone and restructure the divisions.

This will just increase strikeouts.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

They didn’t take away hard slides, they took away dirty slides.  

You're telling me Andrelton Simmons slide a couple weeks back was dirty?

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

Bob Gibson was another prime example. Those guys owned the plate and had no problem reminding hitters when they needed to.

And the best ones had the control to do so, without hitting the batter.  Gibson may have been the meanest SOB in the modern pitching era.

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

The shift needs to be an illegal defense.

I bet you they will try putting a limit on how many times a team employs a defensive shift in the near future.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

13 minutes ago, artesmustache said:

I'm starting to feel this way too...2 guys on each side of base. It's crazy to hear myself say that because batters should adjust, but they just don't. They sit up there and swing for fences and are fine with a k. Makes for a bad game. 

Baking the shift just reinforces the direction the game is going. Right now there is a punishment for focusing on the power game, and that is hitting the ball into the shift. Banning the shift just masks the issue.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Here is my most likely controversial solution to the problem... move the bases up 2 feet each.

This will reintroduce speed back into the game and promote putting the ball in play and stealing bases. Defenses will have to counter by playing up closer and being quicker. Pujols might even reach on an error every once and awhile... well probably not, but still he might make a play look close!

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You're telling me Andrelton Simmons slide a couple weeks back was dirty?

No

[Tank]

17 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Here is my most likely controversial solution to the problem... move the bases up 2 feet each.

This will reintroduce speed back into the game and promote putting the ball in play and stealing bases. Defenses will have to counter by playing up closer and being quicker. Pujols might even reach on an error every once and awhile... well probably not, but still he might make a play look close!

interesting idea. move the mound back another couple of feet at the same time and it'd be intriguing to see what that does to the game.

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, artesmustache said:

the 9% drop in attendance is a problem MLB seems to be blind too as well. Attendance will only get worse.

They need to pick up the pace of play, cut back on the k's, electronic strike zone, form one league with same rules and restructure divisions geographically. A division with Angels, Dodgers, Padres, A's and Giants would be a bonanza for attendance and cut back travel costs tremendously. Even swapping out A's and Giants for Dbacks if need be would still work.

Is there really a 9% drop this year in attendances? I went to one game this year it was Ohtani’s last game where he got injured and I was surprised how little people cared and how little attendance there was at the game felt like 10k people or so. I had season seats for years and I’ve never seen the stadium feel so empty the last couple years  

 

[Ohtaniland]

38 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The average cost of going to an Angels game in 2012 (after AP) was 159.00 (5th lowest) an 8.4% increase from 2011.  Today it's 194.02 (7th lowest) about $40.00 below the league average.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/202611/fan-cost-index-of-the-major-league-baseball/   I've said this before but given the relative cost cost of living in the area and the team's payroll they are one of baseballs biggest bargains...

Beyond that - when compared to the other big sports, MLB is far and away the biggest bargain in general..   https://public.tableau.com/profile/russell.scibetti#!/vizhome/FanCostIndexAcrossProfessionalSports/ByLeague

 

 

No doubt the Angels are cheaper but I just enjoy redirecting my baseball entertainment budget to traveling and visiting different ballparks rather than watching the same sunken ship every August and September. 

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

No doubt the Angels are cheaper but I just enjoy redirecting my baseball entertainment budget to traveling and visiting different ballparks rather than watching the same sunken ship every August and September. 

I think you nailed it here in this response -- Sports are more and more about entertainment value.

If a person doesn't find something entertaining they are best off taking their business elsewhere, it's the only intelligent thing to do.  There is likewise something to be said for not ruining the experience for those who still enjoy the team.

[Dick B Back]

43 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And the best ones had the control to do so, without hitting the batter.  Gibson may have been the meanest SOB in the modern pitching era.

I agree.

[Ohtaniland]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think you nailed it here in this response -- Sports are more and more about entertainment value.

If a person doesn't find something entertaining they are best off taking their business elsewhere, it's the only intelligent thing to do.  There is likewise something to be said for not ruining the experience for those who still enjoy the team.

When I’m at Angels stadium I’m a very quiet fan. I don’t yell and scream or boo players, coaches or umpires. I have my Angels gear on and mind my business. 

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think you nailed it here in this response -- Sports are more and more about entertainment value.

If a person doesn't find something entertaining they are best off taking their business elsewhere, it's the only intelligent thing to do.  There is likewise something to be said for not ruining the experience for those who still enjoy the team.

This is gold.  

[Pujols4MVP]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

The shift needs to be an illegal defense.

This too. They should ban the shift & reward a team with a walk if they get shifted on, it will increase runs scored in the league as would a pitch clock to limit the amount of time between pitches (some pitchers take like a minute between pitches).

[Thomas]

Baseball isn't the only sport facing attendance woes. Hell Nascar may fold as this rate. Football clearly is suffering, and not just because of kneeling. Professional wrestling ratings are barely half on a good week compared to twenty years ago. Yet they just got a huge new TV contract because as bad as their ratings and attendance have become, it's still better than their peers. I think looking too focused on the quality of the baseball being played may be missing the bigger picture.

[Dick B Back]

4 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

When I’m at Angels stadium I’m a very quiet fan. I don’t yell and scream or boo players, coaches or umpires. I have my Angels gear on and mind my business. 

And when Verlander is in town, just keepin’ an eye out for the Mrs.

Oops sorry, that’s Tank.