Valbuena Needs to Go

[Blarg]

Luis Valbuena is truly a zero sum player. He does not provide any special defensive skills (-.2 dWar), he does not provide offense warranting a corner infielder (-.4 oWar) and yet he has started 62 of the 73 games played this season with a WRC+ of 68.

Over the last two seasons his batting line is .206/.285/.398/.683. This season .218/.268/.337/.605 or in perspective, Cliff Pennington brought more to the table. 

He is not heating up with more playing time, his June stats are .154/.211/.212/.422. the Angels DFAed the sad clown Espinosa last season for putting up those kind of numbers. I've never liked the swing for the fence/high strikeout players and Valbuena got a long leash last season because he popped 22 home runs. This season he's just a high strikeout player with 66 in 193 at bats. That is 34% of the time he is going to produce nothing at all but an out, not even a productive one. His failure rate is around 74% of the time he won't reach base. His 6 home runs this season just doesn't justify him entering a batters box.

The Angels have corner infield prospects that could use the experience at the major league level. Guys like Thaiss and Ward that are playing well in AAA. No, I don't think their numbers will translate straight across but they at least will get the at bats to adjust to the major league level and be ready to fill a full time role next season.

Valbuena is not part of next season and shouldn't be a part of this at this stage. He doesn't move the Angels forward towards a playoff and is blocking the development of players the Angels need to know if they can play at this level next season.

It's time to trade or cut him loose.

 

 

[arch stanton]

Maybe they're hoping he hits a hot enough streak so that a contender will bite on his potential as a lefty bench bat with passable defense at the corners

[bloodbrother]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Luis Valbuena is truly a zero sum player. He does not provide any special defensive skills (-.2 dWar), he does not provide offense warranting a corner infielder (-.4 oWar) and yet he has started 62 of the 73 games played this season with a WRC+ of 68.

Over the last two seasons his batting line is .206/.285/.398/.683. This season .218/.268/.337/.605 or in perspective, Cliff Pennington brought more to the table. 

He is not heating up with more playing time, his June stats are .154/.211/.212/.422. the Angels DFAed the sad clown Espinosa last season for putting up those kind of numbers. I've never liked the swing for the fence/high strikeout players and Valbuena got a long leash last season because he popped 22 home runs. This season he's just a high strikeout player with 66 in 193 at bats. That is 34% of the time he is going to produce nothing at all but an out, not even a productive one. His failure rate is around 74% of the time he won't reach base. His 6 home runs this season just doesn't justify him entering a batters box.

The Angels have corner infield prospects that could use the experience at the major league level. Guys like Thaiss and Ward that are playing well in AAA. No, I don't think their numbers will translate straight across but they at least will get the at bats to adjust to the major league level and be ready to fill a full time role next season.

Valbuena is not part of next season and shouldn't be a part of this at this stage. He doesn't move the Angels forward towards a playoff and is blocking the development of players the Angels need to know if they can play at this level next season.

It's time to trade or cut him loose.

 

 

 

[Jason]

I don't get why he has such a long leash. The dude is terrible at baseball

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Maybe they're hoping he hits a hot enough streak so that a contender will bite on his potential as a lefty bench bat with passable defense at the corners

Yeah, maybe Ohtani's MRI was lost and they used Tropeanos from a couple years ago as a mistake. 

[Stradling]

I seriously don’t know what Eppler is waiting for.  I understand giving him the start of this season, but its time.  So what if you release him and he goes to a contender, he didn’t perform here and that is all that matters.  

[DMVol]

6 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Maybe they're hoping he hits a hot enough streak so that a contender will bite on his potential as a lefty bench bat with passable defense at the corners

Going to be a hard sell to get anybody to take on 4 million (half of his salary)...

[fan_since79]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't get why he has such a long leash. The dude is terrible at baseball

Maybe Mike enjoys watching his bat flips. 

But seriously, it's not like he has a lot of other options. Go with Fletcher full time?

[Angel Oracle]

27 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Maybe they're hoping he hits a hot enough streak so that a contender will bite on his potential as a lefty bench bat with passable defense at the corners

This is what I’m hoping.  But time is running low with the trade deadline just some 6 weeks away.

Thaiss and Ward are hitting well, and likely aren’t far from being ready.

As mentioned, Valnobuena aside from one several days stretch has sucked for the entire season so far.   About $4 million is not that much to absorb via trade or DFA.  We’re not the Marlins!

Personally, I think Sosh puts a little too much into great clubhouses.   It’s important that it function solidly, but not at the expense of carrying terrible hitters who can’t play defense well at all.

[Torridd]

The main problem is Valbuena is not a starter and he's starting too much. 

[totdprods]

He's streaky as hell. In Detroit, he got into a little rhythm and was getting the job done for a couple series...but he's cooled off quite a bit again. 

I think Eppler and Co. were hoping he'd get on a run like he did in the second half last summer, but he hasn't been able to sustain any success he's managed to have this year. With JMF and Fletcher now on the 40-man, and with Kole back on the team, I think Valbuena's days are nearing an end here.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Maybe Mike enjoys watching his bat flips. 

But seriously, it's not like he has a lot of other options. Go with Fletcher full time?

If the team thinks that Fletcher is ready for the struggle, then yes I would go with Fletcher full time.  If that doesn’t work then put JMF over there and call up Thiass.  

[Second Base]

Matt Thaiss' numbers won't be as big of a drop off as you might think. He's a very polished hitter and is killing pitches in the zone. He's spraying to all fields. 

He's as close to ready as most 23 year olds can be. He isn't as good as JMF in AAA, but that guy is 30 and had already been a professional for over a decade from his days in Cuba.

If the Angels give Thaiss a chance next year, he'll be a productive member of the offense.

[hangin n wangin]

I am so sick of the old guys that are hitting near the Mendoza line. 

I know going with the young guys doesn't always produce a better result, but what is the loss in giving them consistent at bats to see if at least even one of them breaks out and shows some things? 

Valbuena doesn't even deserve to see the field the way he has played the past 2 years and add to the fact that he is a mental midget, makes it more mind boggling that he's playing in the majority of games. It needs to stop.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

I am so sick of the old guys that are hitting near the Mendoza line. 

I know going with the young guys doesn't always produce a better result, but what is the loss in giving them consistent at bats to see if at least even one of them breaks out and shows some things? 

Valbuena doesn't even deserve to see the field the way he has played the past 2 years and add to the fact that he is a mental midget, makes it more mind boggling that he's playing in the majority of games. It needs to stop.

The loss is putting them in that position before they are mentally ready and slowing down their development.  

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

The loss is putting them in that position before they are mentally ready and slowing down their development.  

Yea, in some cases. But someone like Fernandez was ready long ago and it took Facking forever to bring him up. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, hangin n wangin said:

Yea, in some cases. But someone like Fernandez was ready long ago and it took Facking forever to bring him up. 

I completely agree it took too long to bring up Fernandez.  He should have had Valbuena or Marte’s job.  

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

If the team thinks that Fletcher is ready for the struggle, then yes I would go with Fletcher full time.  If that doesn’t work then put JMF over there and call up Thiass.  

Fletcher is not a 1st baseman. Thaiss or Ward would be the replacement with Fletcher as the utility infielder to spell Cozart, Kinsler and Simmons. Although with the way Fernandez is playing, first base should be his.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Blarg

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

Fletcher is not a 1st baseman. Thaiss or Ward would be the replacement with Fletcher as the utility infielder to spell Cozart, Kinsler and Simmons.

Yea, I guess I got caught up in the fact that Valbuena has been playing mostly 3rd base of late with JMF at 1st.  

[Taylor]

Valbuena has become the guy with the incriminating photos.

[Angelsfan1984]

48 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

The loss is putting them in that position before they are mentally ready and slowing down their development.  

that's a contradictory statement. You don't develop without learning from failure. Nobody succeeds 100% of the time. You learn how to be mentally prepared by learning from mistakes. At this point in the season and the way its playing out, they should be up here getting major league experience. Marte should be released and valbuena should be benched if they can't find a trade partner. Trade Kinsler and let Fletcher play 2nd, JMF play 1st and Cozart can play 3rd when he returns. If they don't want to trade for an immediate upgrade because of prospect retention then just call it a season and let them gain the experience they need.

[GrittyVeterans]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Valbuena has become the guy with the incriminating photos.

At this point, he has to have incriminating photos of Scioscia and Eppler. Together.

I can't think of another explanation for him to 1) be on the roster and 2) be playing every day

[Ohtaniland]

Looks like Goodwill Stores has a very strict return policy. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

that's a contradictory statement. You don't develop without learning from failure. Nobody succeeds 100% of the time. You learn how to be mentally prepared by learning from mistakes. At this point in the season and the way its playing out, they should be up here getting major league experience. Marte should be released and valbuena should be benched if they can't find a trade partner. Trade Kinsler and let Fletcher play 2nd, JMF play 1st and Cozart can play 3rd when he returns. If they don't want to trade for an immediate upgrade because of prospect retention then just call it a season and let them gain the experience they need.

That’s splitting hairs.  You simply said it better than I did.  If they aren’t ready to fail at this level and learn from it then that is the loss of bringing them up too early.  I’d release both Valbuena and Marte when Cozart comes back.  

[Angelsfan1984]

29 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

That’s splitting hairs.  You simply said it better than I did.  If they aren’t ready to fail at this level and learn from it then that is the loss of bringing them up too early.  I’d release both Valbuena and Marte when Cozart comes back.  

Sink or swim imo. Far too much talent coming up through the system to let AAA players become AAAA players. Unfortunately that's the balance that Eppler needs to work with. Are they competing now or playing for the future? They are in the awkward phase so ultimately the message needs to be established and made clear through the manager.

If eppler wants to develop, then cut the crap and move up the youngsters, if he wants to compete then trade for some help NOW! These last 3 years have been so similar that the seasons are more about who's injured and who's sucking than playoff contention.