We're kinda screwed

[Glen]

...unless the bullpen suddenly gets better, which it won't. The season is spiraling down the drain and to turn it around the Angels need at least two legit bullpen arms, at least one starter, and to dump Valbuena and replace him with somebody league average. To do that would hurt the farm and I don't see Eppler doing that. There are just too many holes.

At most I see a trade for one bullpen arm or starter and then focus on the off-season. What do you think Eppler will do?

[Make Angels Great Again]

Really hurting me to see Trout going through this. You can tell he wants nothing more than to win games..

I'm praying they pull their heads out soon. If Trout walks it'll be the worst day in my baseball fan existence.

[TroutField]

I’m starting to write off the playoffs, this team is a clusterfuck. I don’t believe there is any turning this around. And I’ve been trying to stay positive until now. 

[mulwin444]

Unless you thought that the Angels magically transformed into a 100 win team ready to compete for the division lead against the World Champion Astros this past off season, the goal for this season was always the Wild Card, and, considering the strength of the Red Sox and Yankees, most likely the 2nd Wild Card.  It's mid-June and the season is not over.  Despite the lead built up by the M's, they are still vulnerable to regression so I think there is a good possibility they fall back a bit along with the Angels getting better.  Will it be enough?  Hard to say but I will point out that on May 1st, the Dodgers were 9 GB of the DBacks, and now they are 2 GB.  This was from a mix of the Dodgers streaking and DBacks sucking.  I think the M's have it in them to suck for a stretch this season so the question becomes do the Angels have it in them to steak?

What do I think Eppler will do?  He's doing it.  He's aggressively promoting guys that appear ready and letting them adjust as opposed to keeping them down at the previous level for 100+ ABs.  He's picking guys off the waiver wire that can fill in some BP innings while his starters get stretched out over 100 pitches.  He's DL'd Calhoun to get him out of the line-up.  I expect to see Valbeuna released and Thaiss promoted as he's clearly ready (.296 .355 .877 between AA/AAA).  I expect Fernandez and Fletcher to get more ABs in lieu of Kinsler and Pujols.  I also expect this will be Mike's last season.

As for the BP, going into the offseason, Eppler had candidates that could assume the 7th, 8th, and closer roles.  Bedrosian, while not the future closer he was once thought to be, seemed to be ok to be 7th inning guy.  Blake Parker,, at 2.54 ERA 0.832 WHIP 11.5 K/9 in 67 IP last season, and Kenyan Middleton, with his triple digit heat, seemed primed to assume the back-end of the game.  So, yeah, it didn't work out and will require trades to fix or patience which they may not have the luxury of at this point.

When it comes to the BP, Eppler has to continue to snag guys off the wire and look for talent on teams that are out of it.  It won't be easy because every GM knows that he needs BP help and he doesn't have to appear desperate for the other GMs to know he is desperate.  I also know that the same people bitching about the fact we didn't sign a start also would have offered good money for Alex Cobb (2-9 7.14 ERA 1.714 WHIP 58 ERA+) and Lance Lynn (4-5 4.98 ERA 1.602 WHIP 83 ERA+) or Greg Holland to be our closer (0-2 9.45 ERA 2.625 WHIP 42 ERA+)

I think by September 1st, we will see a different team, either transformed through promotions or trades, that will compete enough to give the M's a run for the 2nd WC.

 

[Stradling]

Great post @mulwin444.  It won’t sit right with the hindsight crew, but this was always going to be a transition year while the farm continues to develop.  This was going to be a season where everything had to go right in order to make a push for the playoffs.  I think most of us thought we would be closer to the 2nd wild card, but it looks like it might take 95 wins to get that.  Eppler didn’t go out and sign some long term anchor of a contract this year to some aging veteran, and he hasn’t done that since he has been a GM.  He brought in guys (4 guys) all veterans capable of putting together good seasons.  Cozart has been bad, but as @Dochalo and @Inside Pitch have stated his offense would be passable at 2nd base.  He brought in Kinsler who after a rough first 6 weeks, which also included a DL stint, has been solid the last 4 weeks.  He brought in Chris Young to be a 4th outfielder, who has had to almost be a platoon or a starting RFer because Kole has sucked worse than any of us thought he would.  He brought in Jim Johnson, who has been bad, but that came with money to sign Ohtani, so we have to understand he was a means to an end.  Don’t forget he also brought in JMF, who has been pretty good.  People will bitch about whether or not any of those guys should have been brought in, but the point is with these signings, they aren’t actually blocking anyone.  In the off season no one thought Fletcher would be ready to make the jump, and the jury is still out on him.  No one, except for me, was ready to hand the third baseman job to Cowart.  I think most of us praised the signing of Cozart, even the most critical of Angel fan was on board.  Sure he could have done more with the pen, but damn imagine trying to guess right on a pen arm when the chance is about 50/50 they will suck, oh and they were as expensive as hell.  

[fan_since79]

The injuries have absolutely killed us, especially Ohtani's.

Shoemaker, Tropeano, Richards, Middleton, Wood. Simmons' sprained ankle and extended absence. The unexpected mega-slumps and disappearance of the offense; Calhoun, Kinsler, Cozart, Valbuena (the latter not unexpected). Pujols aging rapidly. 

We're still over .500 and Seattle is our only competition for that second wild card, at least for now. There is a huge hill to climb, but we have a lot of games left head-to-head with them, and the final ten are at the Big A. 

Season not over, but almost. We're breathing and in the hospital but not yet in the ICU. Let's see what medicine Dr. Eppler and company can apply to heal the patient.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

My fantasy team may be screwed but as far a real baseball goes we're not even at the halfway point.  Like Mulwin I expect the Mariners to regress and I think the Angels can play better.  

[Torridd]

8 hours ago, Glen said:

...unless the bullpen suddenly gets better, which it won't. The season is spiraling down the drain and to turn it around the Angels need at least two legit bullpen arms, at least one starter, and to dump Valbuena and replace him with somebody league average. To do that would hurt the farm and I don't see Eppler doing that. There are just too many holes.

At most I see a trade for one bullpen arm or starter and then focus on the off-season. What do you think Eppler will do?

I really don't know. We, fans here have been screaming for bullpen help for weeks. I'm not sure what Eppler is waiting for. It's not too late, but we're getting closer to the edge of the cliff. Management must have a plan, but it's frustrating not knowing what it is.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I really don't know. We, fans here have been screaming for bullpen help for weeks. I'm not sure what Eppler is waiting for. It's not too late, but we're getting closer to the edge of the cliff. Management must have a plan, but it's frustrating not knowing what it is.

It really comes down to prospect cost to acquire someone early in a season.  

[Torridd]

20 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Great post @mulwin444.  It won’t sit right with the hindsight crew, but this was always going to be a transition year while the farm continues to develop.  This was going to be a season where everything had to go right in order to make a push for the playoffs.  I think most of us thought we would be closer to the 2nd wild card, but it looks like it might take 95 wins to get that.  Eppler didn’t go out and sign some long term anchor of a contract this year to some aging veteran, and he hasn’t done that since he has been a GM.  He brought in guys (4 guys) all veterans capable of putting together good seasons.  Cozart has been bad, but as @Dochalo and @Inside Pitch have stated his offense would be passable at 2nd base.  He brought in Kinsler who after a rough first 6 weeks, which also included a DL stint, has been solid the last 4 weeks.  He brought in Chris Young to be a 4th outfielder, who has had to almost be a platoon or a starting RFer because Kole has sucked worse than any of us thought he would.  He brought in Jim Johnson, who has been bad, but that came with money to sign Ohtani, so we have to understand he was a means to an end.  Don’t forget he also brought in JMF, who has been pretty good.  People will bitch about whether or not any of those guys should have been brought in, but the point is with these signings, they aren’t actually blocking anyone.  In the off season no one thought Fletcher would be ready to make the jump, and the jury is still out on him.  No one, except for me, was ready to hand the third baseman job to Cowart.  I think most of us praised the signing of Cozart, even the most critical of Angel fan was on board.  Sure he could have done more with the pen, but damn imagine trying to guess right on a pen arm when the chance is about 50/50 they will suck, oh and they were as expensive as hell.  

I disagree that this is a transition year. I don't see that based on Eppler's moves this winter.

[Stradling]

Just now, Torridd said:

I disagree that this is a transition year. I don't see that based on Eppler's moves this winter.

Yea we will have to agree to disagree.  Nothing he did cost us the future and it isn’t like we were ever going to not spend.  So he signed transitional pieces in Cozart and Kinsler as well as Young.  He signed Upton to be a part of the future.  

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, calscuf said:

Dude he’s a JeDi, I mean an EpLer!!

Eppler screwed up Reagins style.  I’m just waiting for the fanboys to turn.

Expecting that this bullpen could support a playoff team is Vernon Wells for Napoli/Rivera level stupidity.

Who exactly is a fanboy?   

Check the staff predictions thread... I had the Angels missing the playoffs.   I'm not happy with how things have gone but I trust the process.  I've been about building for 2019 and beyond for a long time.  My fear has been and continues to be that they will slow that process down by making foolish trades for this year.

But as far as Jedi/Eppler goes.... Dipoto inherited a team with a bunch of players in their primes and a farm system that had Trout, Segura, Richards, Shoemaker, and Cron.  I wish Eppler had been handed that team and not the one Dipoto left in his wake.

IMO comparing the praise for Eppler to that of Dipoto is its own level of stupidity.  The only thing Dipoto brought to the table was not being Mike Scioscia.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

I really don't know. We, fans here have been screaming for bullpen help for weeks. I'm not sure what Eppler is waiting for. It's not too late, but we're getting closer to the edge of the cliff. Management must have a plan, but it's frustrating not knowing what it is.

My guess is that a lot of deals have been explored, but Eppler isn't giving up the farm for a temporary fix. In today's baseball world, one also has to consider the length and cost of any contracts that would be absorbed, and whether the gain would be worth it financially. I'm sure that there are several teams out there looking to dump bad contracts.

[Angelsfan1984]

1 hour ago, The Boogie Man said:

Yea we will have to agree to disagree.  Nothing he did cost us the future and it isn’t like we were ever going to not spend.  So he signed transitional pieces in Cozart and Kinsler as well as Young.  He signed Upton to be a part of the future.  

You don't spend 130 million dollars on transition. Upton and Cozart were brought in with idea to fill major holes in the team and compete along with a slew of pitchers coming back healthy and bringing in Ohtani. That's not transition. Kinsler and Jim Johnson were the only Stop gap options for the team. Every other move made was with the intention of making the playoffs.

[Angel Oracle]

Did Cozart's move to 3B affect his offense?   Or did moving to a new league affect it?

.769, .732, .933 were his OPS' from 2015-2017.   Yet, he isn't even above .658 currently?

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Ha. Fanboy.

Okay...  I LOLed pretty hard.   Good show, Sir...

[Inside Pitch]

25 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Did Cozart's move to 3B affect his offense?   Or did moving to a new league affect it?

.769, .732, .933 were his OPS' from 2015-2017.   Yet, he isn't even above .658 currently?

It's a bit of both -- but his defense at 3B has tanked terribly...   Dude isn't a 3B.

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

It's a bit of both -- but his defense at 3B has tanked terribly...   Dude isn't a 3B.

Makes one wonder if he would be a better 2B than SS, that he's more of a MIF?

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

Makes one wonder if he would be a better 2B than SS, that he's more of a MIF?

Definitely better suited for 2B, if for no other reason because as a SS he's familiar with how the keystone works and where his 2B should always be.  He doesn't have the instincts at 3B -- it's nothing physical, he's just sort of a fish out of water there.   Remember how some guys would struggle moving from RF to LF because they say the angels are all different and the ball comes off the bat different... those are the things Im talking about.

[Chuck]

11 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Really hurting me to see Trout going through this. You can tell he wants nothing more than to win games..

I'm praying they pull their heads out soon. If Trout walks it'll be the worst day in my baseball fan existence.

I think Trout is having a GREAT time. 

He's married to a beautiful wife. Has a beautiful home (and dog). He makes some serious coin doing what he loves since a child. He gets to play with a future Hall of Famer and an international sensation. He gets to play under a Hall of Fame manager. He gets to play with current and former All-Stars in sunny So. Cal. 

He does this all with a smile day in, day out. 

Some of you guys need to chill on the Mike Trout is sad and poor Mike Shit. 

[Dick B Back]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I think Trout is having a GREAT time. 

He's married to a beautiful wife. Has a beautiful home (and dog). He makes some serious coin doing what he loves since a child. He gets to play with a future Hall of Famer and an international sensation. He gets to play under a Hall of Fame manager. He gets to play with current and former All-Stars in sunny So. Cal. 

He does this all with a smile day in, day out. 

Some of you guys need to chill on the Mike Trout is sad and poor Mike Shit. 

[daygloman]

11 hours ago, Glen said:

 

At most I see a trade for one bullpen arm or starter and then focus on the off-season. What do you think Eppler will do?

We're 10.5 games out and it's not even the break yet. 

I think Eppler will do little, if anything at all. 

[Angelsfan1984]

26 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I think Trout is having a GREAT time. 

He's married to a beautiful wife. Has a beautiful home (and dog). He makes some serious coin doing what he loves since a child. He gets to play with a future Hall of Famer and an international sensation. He gets to play under a Hall of Fame manager. He gets to play with current and former All-Stars in sunny So. Cal. 

He does this all with a smile day in, day out. 

Some of you guys need to chill on the Mike Trout is sad and poor Mike Shit. 

You know that Joe Maddon isn't here anymore right?

[DMVol]

42 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Makes one wonder if he would be a better 2B than SS, that he's more of a MIF?

 

39 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Definitely better suited for 2B, if for no other reason because as a SS he's familiar with how the keystone works and where his 2B should always be.  He doesn't have the instincts at 3B -- it's nothing physical, he's just sort of a fish out of water there.   Remember how some guys would struggle moving from RF to LF because they say the angels are all different and the ball comes off the bat different... those are the things Im talking about.

I think he is the everyday 2bman starting next year, if not sooner....if we're out of at the deadline, I could see us trading Kinsler (if he has any market, it would help if he'd continue to heat up) and moving Cozart to 2b this year, rather than waiting until next season...all that presupposes that Cozart doesn't have to have shoulder surgery....

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

As for the BP, going into the offseason, Eppler had candidates that could assume the 7th, 8th, and closer roles.  Bedrosian, while not the future closer he was once thought to be, seemed to be ok to be 7th inning guy.  Blake Parker,, at 2.54 ERA 0.832 WHIP 11.5 K/9 in 67 IP last season, and Kenyan Middleton, with his triple digit heat, seemed primed to assume the back-end of the game.  So, yeah, it didn't work out and will require trades to fix or patience which they may not have the luxury of at this point.

I haven't seen any numbers on it, but I generally assume at least a 50% attrition rate. Considering their history it's hard to see those three guys as anything less than higher risk. I don't think we are seeing results too far from the median expectation.