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ESPN: How Mike Trout stacks against MLB Greats through 1k games (hint: he is a god)


nate

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11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Can you describe exactly what you envision Arte doing to meet your expectations?

That's been discussed many times.  I don't feel like looking at every FA since 2013 or the players available in a trade but some noteworthy ones would have been to keep Greinke and keep Hunter.  Sign Beltre or at least traded for a good 3rd baseman.  Traded for or signed a good 2nd baseman.  Sign or trade for a lock down closer. Sign Cespedes. Sign Encarnacion. Maybe sign Price or Cueto etc.  Those are just some examples of many.  Arte should have always been getting the best FA. Basically, do whatever it takes to surround Trout with the absolute best talent available.  Gut the farm if you have to.  Keeping draft picks by not signing FA's and having a strong farm is meaningless when you have a once in a lifetime player on your team. You go all out as long as you have him.  You make up for that by hiring BETTER scouts than the Angels have so good players can still be drafted in the later rounds.

Unfortunately, Arte's number 1 priority is not a World Series Championship and I can only watch as he wastes one of the best to ever play the game.  We all know the problems the Angels have had every year.  A team doesn't take this long to fix all those position issues if it's number 1 goal is to win a championship.  It's almost comical how year in and year out, a big market team with a billionaire owner still struggles.  The Simmons trade should have been happening more after 2012.  Meaning, we trade for the best or one of the best position players available to win now.  Ones we can't get in a trade, we sign.  Here we are in 2018 and the bullpen is a mess(let K-rod go and haven't replaced him), we are grasping at straws again with 2nd.  3rd base is still a black hole, an OF position is still not taken care of.  Injuries have happened sure but 2013-present, the Angels have not been run like a team that is doing all it can to win a WS. Again, that's sad and unfortunate but the Angels are Arte's play thing and if he doesn't want a WS and is fine with wasting Trout, the most any of us can do is simply not show up to the ballpark.  Judging by Arte getting 3 million fans for however many years in a row(his number 1 priority)that's not going to happen any time soon.

Look, I know he is going to tell Eppler to go and trade for a player that gives the illusion that the Angels are still trying to win.  He needs to make sure he hits that magic number in attendance.  Hes too stubborn to realize that this team needs a rebuilding year.  Again, I have wanted to sell off most of the team the last 2 trade deadlines.  Doing that in 2016 would have put the club in a better position for 2017.  Doing it last year would have put the club in better position this year.  If Arte had been putting the best team together possible, we wouldn't have to be worrying about any of the things I just mentioned.  As fans, we are at the mercy of ownership and this ownership has clearly shown it doesn't care if it has the best player on it's team.  This ownerships number 1 goal is not to win the World Series and I find that sad but that's just me. 

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32 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Can you describe exactly what you envision Arte doing to meet your expectations?

I agree. Arte was overzealous, found out it didn't work, and now lets his GMs do the work. I don't think he's frugal and I think he wants to win as much as any owner.

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47 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Can you describe exactly what you envision Arte doing to meet your expectations?

Yeah, wtf?

I'd like to hear the Arte plan, too. We have the 5th highest payroll in baseball which means Arte is opening the pocketbook......those players living up to expectation or being poor signings is another question.

Dude has spent a ton and has one of the highest payrolls in baseball.

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37 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

That's been discussed many times.  I don't feel like looking at every FA since 2013 or the players available in a trade but some noteworthy ones would have been to keep Greinke and keep Hunter.  Sign Beltre or at least traded for a good 3rd baseman.  Traded for or signed a good 2nd baseman.  Sign or trade for a lock down closer. Sign Cespedes. Sign Encarnacion. Maybe sign Price or Cueto etc.  Those are just some examples of many.  Arte should have always been getting the best FA. Basically, do whatever it takes to surround Trout with the absolute best talent available.  Gut the farm if you have to.  Keeping draft picks by not signing FA's and having a strong farm is meaningless when you have a once in a lifetime player on your team. You go all out as long as you have him.  You make up for that by hiring BETTER scouts than the Angels have so good players can still be drafted in the later rounds.

Unfortunately, Arte's number 1 priority is not a World Series Championship and I can only watch as he wastes one of the best to ever play the game.  We all know the problems the Angels have had every year.  A team doesn't take this long to fix all those position issues if it's number 1 goal is to win a championship.  It's almost comical how year in and year out, a big market team with a billionaire owner still struggles.  The Simmons trade should have been happening more after 2012.  Meaning, we trade for the best or one of the best position players available to win now.  Ones we can't get in a trade, we sign.  Here we are in 2018 and the bullpen is a mess(let K-rod go and haven't replaced him), we are grasping at straws again with 2nd.  3rd base is still a black hole, an OF position is still not taken care of.  Injuries have happened sure but 2013-present, the Angels have not been run like a team that is doing all it can to win a WS. Again, that's sad and unfortunate but the Angels are Arte's play thing and if he doesn't want a WS and is fine with wasting Trout, the most any of us can do is simply not show up to the ballpark.  Judging by Arte getting 3 million fans for however many years in a row(his number 1 priority)that's not going to happen any time soon.

Look, I know he is going to tell Eppler to go and trade for a player that gives the illusion that the Angels are still trying to win.  He needs to make sure he hits that magic number in attendance.  Hes too stubborn to realize that this team needs a rebuilding year.  Again, I have wanted to sell off most of the team the last 2 trade deadlines.  Doing that in 2016 would have put the club in a better position for 2017.  Doing it last year would have put the club in better position this year.  If Arte had been putting the best team together possible, we wouldn't have to be worrying about any of the things I just mentioned.  As fans, we are at the mercy of ownership and this ownership has clearly shown it doesn't care if it has the best player on it's team.  This ownerships number 1 goal is not to win the World Series and I find that sad but that's just me. 

If I can summarize, you want every premiere free agent signed and for trades you say "gut the farm if you have to."

Except the Angels have lived at the luxury cap limit and there was no farm to gut.

The only thing you can do under these circumstances is try to stay competitive while you manage the payroll to find space and build the farm.

Yes there have been some missed opportunities  (like I thought when Adrian Beltre signed with Texas rhat was the best free agent fit ever to get away), but to conclude that Arte doesnt want to win and is only interested in the "illusion" of trying to win is garbage.

Arte went all in one notorious offseason about six years ago and that aggressive approach caused damage rather than fixing anything.

We all want a better roster and I think a highly disciplined approach to expensive free agents is the right approach.  One might be worth it we will see.

But I entirely disagree that this owner is not all in or that the moves are to great an illusion.

 

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1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

That's been discussed many times.  I don't feel like looking at every FA since 2013 or the players available in a trade but some noteworthy ones would have been to keep Greinke and keep Hunter.  Sign Beltre or at least traded for a good 3rd baseman.  Traded for or signed a good 2nd baseman.  Sign or trade for a lock down closer. Sign Cespedes. Sign Encarnacion. Maybe sign Price or Cueto etc.  Those are just some examples of many.  Arte should have always been getting the best FA. Basically, do whatever it takes to surround Trout with the absolute best talent available.  Gut the farm if you have to.  Keeping draft picks by not signing FA's and having a strong farm is meaningless when you have a once in a lifetime player on your team. You go all out as long as you have him.  You make up for that by hiring BETTER scouts than the Angels have so good players can still be drafted in the later rounds.

Unfortunately, Arte's number 1 priority is not a World Series Championship and I can only watch as he wastes one of the best to ever play the game.  We all know the problems the Angels have had every year.  A team doesn't take this long to fix all those position issues if it's number 1 goal is to win a championship.  It's almost comical how year in and year out, a big market team with a billionaire owner still struggles.  The Simmons trade should have been happening more after 2012.  Meaning, we trade for the best or one of the best position players available to win now.  Ones we can't get in a trade, we sign.  Here we are in 2018 and the bullpen is a mess(let K-rod go and haven't replaced him), we are grasping at straws again with 2nd.  3rd base is still a black hole, an OF position is still not taken care of.  Injuries have happened sure but 2013-present, the Angels have not been run like a team that is doing all it can to win a WS. Again, that's sad and unfortunate but the Angels are Arte's play thing and if he doesn't want a WS and is fine with wasting Trout, the most any of us can do is simply not show up to the ballpark.  Judging by Arte getting 3 million fans for however many years in a row(his number 1 priority)that's not going to happen any time soon.

Look, I know he is going to tell Eppler to go and trade for a player that gives the illusion that the Angels are still trying to win.  He needs to make sure he hits that magic number in attendance.  Hes too stubborn to realize that this team needs a rebuilding year.  Again, I have wanted to sell off most of the team the last 2 trade deadlines.  Doing that in 2016 would have put the club in a better position for 2017.  Doing it last year would have put the club in better position this year.  If Arte had been putting the best team together possible, we wouldn't have to be worrying about any of the things I just mentioned.  As fans, we are at the mercy of ownership and this ownership has clearly shown it doesn't care if it has the best player on it's team.  This ownerships number 1 goal is not to win the World Series and I find that sad but that's just me. 

Image result for i award you no points meme

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3 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

That's been discussed many times.  I don't feel like looking at every FA since 2013 or the players available in a trade but some noteworthy ones would have been to keep Greinke and keep Hunter.  Sign Beltre or at least traded for a good 3rd baseman.  Traded for or signed a good 2nd baseman.  Sign or trade for a lock down closer. Sign Cespedes. Sign Encarnacion. Maybe sign Price or Cueto etc.  Those are just some examples of many.  Arte should have always been getting the best FA. Basically, do whatever it takes to surround Trout with the absolute best talent available.  Gut the farm if you have to.  Keeping draft picks by not signing FA's and having a strong farm is meaningless when you have a once in a lifetime player on your team. You go all out as long as you have him.  You make up for that by hiring BETTER scouts than the Angels have so good players can still be drafted in.

The problem is that arte tried to sign talent, and signed the wrong ones.

Pujols' deal is a killer. And until recently, you also had contracts like weaver, cj wilson etc. Way too much dead money, and ZERO help coming up from the minors. Thats not so much on moreno.

Didnt hamilton just come off the books last year?

And trout is currently the highest paid player in the league...

Its similar to baltimore with machado. Theyre stuck because jones got old, trumbo and davis' money, etc etc...thank god we arent 'that' bad.

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Maybe Lou can bump it, but maybe its gone from the old board days, but reference what beetles just wrote, it would be funny to look back at the hamilton signing threads...i was one of the few that didnt like the deal, because we had offense at the time but lost grienke, and haren and santana looked done. Most on here were ecstatic.(and it seemed at the time that pujols/hamilton would be manny/ortiz, so i get it). 

Well, that was arte, too. 50 million to two guys...the worst 50 million you could spend just about.

Add in weaver and wilson, and that left about 90 mill in cap space for 21 other guys.

Which going back before trout got here, included wells..gmj...etc.

Its not that moreno hasnt tried, or been cheap. Its that he signed checks to all the wrong people. (Including his GMs).

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Trout has a 6.4 WAR in 72 games, with 318 plate appearances so far.

From 2012 (his first full season) through 2017 he averaged 9.0 WAR per 650 PA. This year he's averaging 13.04 per 650 PA, a 46% increase.

He's on pace this year for 715 PA, and if he plays all 90 games remaining and his production remains the same, he could finish with a 14.3 WAR, which would be the highest ever for a single season among position players.

 

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33 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Maybe Lou can bump it, but maybe its gone from the old board days, but reference what beetles just wrote, it would be funny to look back at the hamilton signing threads...i was one of the few that didnt like the deal, because we had offense at the time but lost grienke, and haren and santana looked done. Most on here were ecstatic.(and it seemed at the time that pujols/hamilton would be manny/ortiz, so i get it). 

Well, that was arte, too. 50 million to two guys...the worst 50 million you could spend just about.

Add in weaver and wilson, and that left about 90 mill in cap space for 21 other guys.

Which going back before trout got here, included wells..gmj...etc.

Its not that moreno hasnt tried, or been cheap. Its that he signed checks to all the wrong people. (Including his GMs).

Yup it’s been bad decision making. Eppler has a long road to go down when he accepted this job and it’s pretty difficult to complain about the job he has done so far. I didn’t think this franchise could turn around his quickly without a full on rebuild but he has kept us decently competitive while completely revamping the minor leagues.

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I also did not like the Hamilton signing.  I wanted Hunter back and to keep Greinke. It would have have made trading away Segura sting less.  Arte just gave up after Hamilton is what most are stating here correct?  He has plenty of money and makes plenty of money.  If he wanted to win a World Series every year and take advantage of Trout, he would have been doing so.  Facts are facts.  He has not done tried to win a WS every year since he's had Trout.  He has wasted one of the best players to ever play this game.  All while playing in a big market and having more than enough money to get the job done if he wanted to.

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