Trout 60-WAR Watch

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

That's only your opinion that players are better today..maybe they are and maybe they aren't.

I mean sure, I guess it's my "opinion". But you don't think advancements in technology, work-out regimens, advanced analytics, scouting, diets, whatever else the F*ck has happened in the last century make today's players better? Ruth drank and smoked like a street hooker. Trout is a specimen of pure athleticism. 

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Maybe he was better than the stat says?

BTW..I don't necessarily think the stat is bad (I in fact didn't say that either). I said imo it wasn't accurate.

If a stat isn't accurate doesn't that make it bad? What is the point of a stat if not to describe something? If it isn't describing something accurately then isn't it bad?

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

It's pretty well proven players are better today. Pitching velocity has steadily risen.

Uh, you don't know that for a fact because there were no radar guns in Ruth's era!

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

If a stat isn't accurate doesn't that make it bad?

No..everything isn't black or white. Because I don't think WAR is accurate doesn't mean that it doesn't have some measure of validity.

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

Uh, you don't know that for a fact because there were no radar guns in Ruth's era!

No. But it takes some real mental gymnastics to believe that velocity has steadily increased from the invention of the radar gun until now but decreased between Ruth's era and the invention of the radar gun.

[Angels#1Fan]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I mean sure, I guess it's my "opinion". But you don't think advancements in technology, work-out regimens, advanced analytics, scouting, diets, whatever else the F*ck has happened in the last century make today's players better? Ruth drank and smoked like a street hooker. Trout is a specimen of pure athleticism. 

All the things you mention might make a player a better athlete but it doesn't necessarily make them a better ball player.

All the analytics in the world won't make someone throw a better curve or give a pitcher the control of say a Greg Maddux..won't make your hand/eye any better either.

Players today are in better shape.

[Angels#1Fan]

4 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

No. But it takes some real mental gymnastics to believe that velocity has steadily increased from the invention of the radar gun until now but decreased between Ruth's era and the invention of the radar gun.

So you assume that the speed a pitch is thrown is the yard stick for whether a pitcher is hittable or not?

It doesn't take much "mental gymnastics" to believe that deception is a key factor when discussing how effective a pitcher might be.

[eaterfan]

Just now, Angels#1Fan said:

So you assume that the speed a pitch is thrown is the yard stick for whether a pitcher is hittable or not?

It doesn't take much "mental gymnastics" to believe that deception is a key factor when discussing how effective a pitcher might be.

I think this is getting to the point of willful obtuseness. If you can't even concede that a ball moving faster is harder to hit then there isn't much to discuss. There are other factors, yes. But look at the league BA and slugging against fastballs of of varying velocities. Hitters are far less effective against harder pitches. The reason the velocity has risen over the entire time the radar gun has been used is because velocity has been found to be a huge factor in how well a pitcher performs. Jered Weaver wasn't any less deceptive as he aged, he threw the ball slower. 

Here's an article about from just this week about how much better pitcher have gotten

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dont-blame-hitters-for-all-the-strikeouts/

[Angels#1Fan]

9 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I think this is getting to the point of willful obtuseness. If you can't even concede that a ball moving faster is harder to hit then there isn't much to discuss.

My "willful obtuseness" tells me at the ML level hitters can hit the fastball.

More minor leaguers have failed at the big league level because they couldn't hit the curve..not the fastball.

If you can't even concede the vagaries of the art of pitching then there isn't much to discuss either but you can find solace in believing that the fastball is everything.

BTW..this has what to do with WAR?

 

[eaterfan]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

My "willful obtuseness" tells me at the ML level hitters can hit the fastball.

More minor leaguers have failed at the big league level because they couldn't hit the curve..not the fastball.

If you can't even concede the vagaries of the art of pitching then there isn't much to discuss either but you can find solace in believing that the fastball is everything.

 

I said "there are other factors".

I'm willing to concede Ruth was more dominant compared to his peers than Trout has been. But if you think MLB was better in quality in Ruth's era then there really is nothing to discuss.

[Angels#1Fan]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I said "there are other factors".

I'm willing to concede Ruth was more dominant compared to his peers than Trout has been. But if you think MLB was better in quality in Ruth's era then there really is nothing to discuss.

If you think Trout is better than Ruth at this point in his career then there really is nothing to discuss!

BTW..I didn't make any claims of any kind regarding the overall quality of baseball when comparing eras.

The comparison was between Ruth and Trout and how WAR either does or doesn't do an accurate job of comparing the two!

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

If you think Trout is better than Ruth at this point in his career then there really is nothing to discuss!

BTW..I didn't make any claims of any kind regarding the overall quality of baseball when comparing eras.

The comparison was between Ruth and Trout and how WAR either does or doesn't do an accurate job of comparing the two!

Which is exactly what WAR does. 

At this point I think you're just intentionally being contrarian.

[fan_since79]

Just crunching a few more numbers:

From 2011-2017, Trout put up a 54.2 WAR over 4,065 plate appearances. That's 9.2 WAR per 650 PA, a typical full season.

This year he already has a 6.0 WAR in 299 PA. That's an average of 13.0 WAR per 650 PA. He's on pace for 712 PA this year hitting from the 2-spot in the order.

Trout is already great, but he's gearing up now for some superhuman years. 

[Dick B Back]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:50 AM, tdawg87 said:

I mean sure, I guess it's my "opinion". But you don't think advancements in technology, work-out regimens, advanced analytics, scouting, diets, whatever else the F*ck has happened in the last century make today's players better? Ruth drank and smoked like a street hooker. Trout is a specimen of pure athleticism. 

I always thought Ruth got additional WAR points because he was able to put up those numbers while smoking and drinking.

[GrittyVeterans]

21 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

I always thought Ruth got additional WAR points because he was able to put up those numbers while smoking and drinking.

When you think about it...he should.