California Governor Race

[UndertheHalo]

And please.  Do bring on a purple moderate party.  I’d be happy with that.  I despise the 2 party system. 

[mtangelsfan]

12 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It is what is MT.  What do you propose ? I don’t see conservative areas falling over themselves to make it more “fair” for liberals.  Quite the opposite actually.  The republicans are far more egregious with gerrymandering and other dirty tricks. 

It is always the other guy that is worse.  It is all about perspective.

Regardless, see Adam's post for the solution.  Power should go from the inside out, not the outside in.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

It is always the other guy that is worse.  It is all about perspective.

Regardless, see Adam's post for the solution.  Power should go from the inside out, not the outside in.

The republicans are objectively worse.  I’m open to a different system that you seem to propose. Don’t misunderstand me.  I am open to changing things.  But the status quo is what it is.  It’s not right to expect one side to allow itself to get curb stomped.  

[mtangelsfan]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The republicans are objectively worse.  I’m open to a different system that you seem to propose. Don’t misunderstand me.  I am open to changing things.  But the status quo is what it is.  It’s not right to expect one side to allow itself to get curb stomped.  

Subjectively worse.

and I never said one side.  There needs to be a shift in this country where local communities have more say, keep more of their money and have much more autonomy than they do now.

[UndertheHalo]

10 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Subjectively worse.

and I never said one side.  There needs to be a shift in this country where local communities have more say, keep more of their money and have much more autonomy than they do now.

We’ll agree to disagree about the gerrymandering and other games.  I don’t want to spend the time going down that path. 

Look, you may be right.  It may be that this country is irreparably fractured the and supremacy of local government is the way it should be.  But that’s not the way our government is structured.  Federal law is surpreme.  For a place like California to give up its strong majority would be political suicide for liberals.  If the two parties want to get together and come to a mutual agreement that changes representation.  Excellent.  Let’s do that.  But not one side first.  It’s crazy to assume good faith in this country right now.  That is sad.  But it is what it is. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Adam]

There are no sides. There's only a State and power-hungry evil Statists attracted to ruling over human beings. 

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

We’ll agree to disagree about the gerrymandering and other games.  I don’t want to spend the time going down that path. 

Look, you may be right.  It may be that this country is irreparably fractured the and supremacy of local government is the way it should be.  But that’s not the way our government is structured.  Federal law is surpreme.  For a place like California to give up its strong majority would be political suicide for liberals.  If the two parties want to get together and come to a mutual agreement that changes representation.  Excellent.  Let’s do that.  But not one side first.  It’s crazy to assume good faith in this country right now.  That is sad.  But it is what it is. 

The supremacy of Federal Law is extremely limited by the constitution.  The problem is that the federal government has usurped the rights of states.  States have the ability to give local authorities more control but they suffer from the same power hungry disease that the Feds do.  It shouldn't be that way.  Money should shuffle out, not out and then back in at pennies on the dollar.

[red321]

29 minutes ago, floplag said:

oh FFS you cant see past your bias can you.. you start everything with party this reps that when both parties have done it for decades.... gerrymandering isnt unique republican, get over it . 
There is literally nothing anyone can say to even get you to think youre beloved Dems could ever be at fault or even complicit over anything.  
I hope one day the roels are reversed so you can see how asinine this position truly is. 

you're funny sometimes

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

The supremacy of Federal Law is extremely limited by the constitution.  The problem is that the federal government has usurped the rights of states.  States have the ability to give local authorities more control but they suffer from the same power hungry disease that the Feds do.  It shouldn't be that way.  Money should shuffle out, not out and then back in at pennies on the dollar.

Again, it is what it is.  The way that the constitution has been interpreted has over time led to an ever stronger federal government.  The Supreme Court has endorsed this over countless rulings.  We can talk about ideal situations but we also have to live in the present world.  You’re talking about a massive fudemental shift in the way this country is governed MT.  You and I are peons bud.  There’s nothing that you or I can say or vote that will change that. 

Maybe we’ll get to a breaking point.  I don’t know.  

[mtangelsfan]

Easy to say when things are going your way.  

 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

No, I see very clearly through your bullshit flop. 

Enjoy your day. 

If you could see thru bullshit you wouldnt be partisan, nice try though.  

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

If you could see thru bullshit you wouldnt be partisan, nice try though.  

Right back at ya brother. 

[UndertheHalo]

23 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Easy to say when things are going your way.  

 

I think very little has gone “my” way.

[mtangelsfan]

10 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think very little has gone “my” way.

This is a thread about California so liberals are having their way.

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Blarg said:

Anybody watch Villaraigosa's speech last night? Unbelievably bad. Just an embarrassment to the Latino community that this idiot could represent them. 

he's such a tool bag. i hope this loss gets him out of the picture for good.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

he's such a tool bag. i hope this loss gets him out of the picture for good.

I think it will.  He was entirely floated by big money.  The guy is a sleezeball.   For sale to the highest bidder. 

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think it will.  He was entirely floated by big money.  The guy is a sleezeball.   For sale to the highest bidder. 

i think everyone saw through his BS ad of "when i was a kid i used to ride the bus" nonsense, as if he's some great overcomer.

[UndertheHalo]

32 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This is a thread about California so liberals are having their way.

But this all started as an argument about representation.  It’s all relavent in the big picture. 

[yvangelfan]

3 hours ago, Adam said:

The only solution to that is for power and authority to start at the local level and spread rather than what we have now. In very general terms cities should trump counties should trump States, should trump the feds. Instead it is the other way around. 

This post made me carsick...

[yvangelfan]

3 hours ago, red321 said:

votes in rural areas count just as much as votes in urban/suburban areas. One person = one vote.

But I would agree from one perspective, one of the biggest issues California faces is budgeting by ballot box rather than letting our elected representatives due their job.

Yes, our elected representatives have done such a fine job with Ca's budget.

 

[Kevin]

A third party that is moderate will never succeed in my opinion. The other two will see its popularity and want to join it. In doing so, they'll bring all their baggage and make it look no different than the two others. With its damaged image it falls apart and we are right where we began.  This is how it will happen, possibly even by design.

[Adam]

Moderates excite no one and too many people are driven by emotion

[Taylor]

18 hours ago, Adam said:

Moderates excite no one and too many people are driven by emotion

If only they were all as exciting as this guy.

[Lhalo]

22 hours ago, Kevin said:

A third party that is moderate will never succeed in my opinion. The other two will see its popularity and want to join it. In doing so, they'll bring all their baggage and make it look no different than the two others. With its damaged image it falls apart and we are right where we began.  This is how it will happen, possibly even by design.

Oh you mean the Tea Party?

[Adam]

5 hours ago, Taylor said:

If only they were all as exciting as this guy.

He’s a moderate libertarian.