The Angels need to go get Kelvin Herrera

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think underthehalo mentioned it earlier, but aside from how bad our pen has been, we could make it perfect and we will still scuffle if the team isnt scoring runs.

Moustakas should be a target. @Inside Pitch mentioned how hes been overrated if you look deeper into his stats, and thats why I was cool not signing him this offseason. That being said, at this point, hed still be a huge upgrade (plus a lefty bat). And this team doesn't have better in house options.

A friend whos in the know mentioned to me recently arenado wants to come here...maybe hes the target? But can/should we wait that long?...

[GrittyVeterans]

I'd back the truck up to get Arenado. He reminds me a lot of Beltre

[bloodbrother]

1 hour ago, zenmaster said:

Look what the Yankees got for Chapman to the cubs a few years back? Maybe things have changed I dunno. 

No 2 trades are the same. Chapman has also been far more dominant than Herrera throughout their careers too

[UndertheHalo]

56 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think underthehalo mentioned it earlier, but aside from how bad our pen has been, we could make it perfect and we will still scuffle if the team isnt scoring runs.

Moustakas should be a target. @Inside Pitch mentioned how hes been overrated if you look deeper into his stats, and thats why I was cool not signing him this offseason. That being said, at this point, hed still be a huge upgrade (plus a lefty bat). And this team doesn't have better in house options.

A friend whos in the know mentioned to me recently arenado wants to come here...maybe hes the target? But can/should we wait that long?...

The problem is that Simmons and Upton are just getting older.  The stars are never going to line up perfectly.  We need to get good as quickly as we can without damaging the team going forward.  I really do wonder if it’s feasible to bring on a guy like Arrenado or a Harper or a Machado and reasonably expect that we can keep Trout.  We still have to pay Pujols for what ? 4 more seasons after this.  This is the reason why I keep saying the Angels need to get league average or slightly above.  We just need guys who will contribute and not kill us.  We have our stars.  Moustakas I’m plenty wary of giving a big contract.  I was against signing him to a big deal.  I don’t think anyone imagined it would be like it is for him.  For 3 years at like 12 mil/ season.  He’s sort of perfect. Especially if he can maintain what he’s doing now for a couple of years. 

The Angels biggest issue right now is losing time with Trout Upton and Simmons. 

[tdawg87]

7 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also.  I’m convinced that the biggest problem with the team is the line up.  We really should get Mike Moustakas.  Another good bat would make a massive difference.  I think that even if Kinslers week long resurgence is legit the more reliable bat is still needed.  

Bullpen wouldnt be in so many or these situations if we can score.   They’ve scored 2 or fewer runs in 21 games this season.  Almost 40 percent of games played.  We need a lot better then that. 

The offense is far from perfect, but it is not the problem. The Angels are 5th in the AL in runs, 4th in HR, 5th in SB, 5th in K%, 5th in OPS, 3rd in WAR. All despite Calhoun and Kinsler and the 3rd lowest BABIP in the league.

Meanwhile, the pen is 2nd in total blown saves and 14th in SV%. 

[UndertheHalo]

32 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The offense is far from perfect, but it is not the problem. The Angels are 5th in the AL in runs, 4th in HR, 5th in SB, 5th in K%, 5th in OPS, 3rd in WAR. All despite Calhoun and Kinsler and the 3rd lowest BABIP in the league.

Meanwhile, the pen is 2nd in total blown saves and 14th in SV%. 

Yes but a lot of these runs are produced in games that are blow outs.  When the Angels go cold they go ice cold and it’s over solid stretches.  That’s indicative of a line up loaded with ineffective hitters.   But yea, when the Angels have been hitting they tend to pile on.  Doesn’t help us much game over game unfortunately. 

The bullpen I agree has issues.  But it’s also among the most heavily used in the majors.  I suspect if you pull up high leverage situations we’re among the leading teams.  We have several effective relievers.  We have several bad ones.  It seems like a mostly average situation to me. What we don’t have is a legitimate back end guy that can take away 3 or 4 AB’s at the end of the game.   Like I said.  I would pay a premium for Brad Hand.  Marsh, Jones.  Not Adell or Canning.  I think it would be a worth it. 

You’re sort of asking for bad results when you keep asking your bullpen to protect 1 run leads for 3 + innings. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[VariousCrap]

22 hours ago, totdprods said:

White Sox, Reds, and Rays have some interesting relievers too who won't cost nearly as much. 

I'd try and add someone like Joakim Soria, Jared Hughes, Brad Brach, Tyler Clippard, John Axford, or Nate Jones first - someone who will come a lot cheaper in terms of prospect capital first and save those bullets for an impact bat and/or starter closer to deadline.

 

I agree with this.  We don't need to trade away the future for some elite BP arm.  We just need one or two better arms that what we have now.  That way we can still make a move to improve the offense at 3B, 2B or RF.

[jordan]

22 hours ago, totdprods said:

White Sox, Reds, and Rays have some interesting relievers too who won't cost nearly as much. 

I'd try and add someone like Joakim Soria, Jared Hughes, Brad Brach, Tyler Clippard, John Axford, or Nate Jones first - someone who will come a lot cheaper in terms of prospect capital first and save those bullets for an impact bat and/or starter closer to deadline.

I have been tracking Jared Hughes the past couple of weeks and he would definitely be a nice fit in the Angels' pen.  A combo of Hughes and Herrera would turn this into a strong pen.

[VariousCrap]

Shit....bring David Hernandez back!!!!

[stormngt]

On 6/3/2018 at 11:37 AM, The Boogie Man said:

I want Herrera and Jon Jay.  That being said, is it enough?  Is it worth the cost?  What would the cost be now?  What would it be in 6 weeks?  Lastly, do we know enough about Herrera to know if he would re-sign?  Would you trade Thias and Ward for those two?  The trade I had been thinking about lately is something like Heaney or Skaggs plus a prospect ranked 5-10 for Herrera and Ian Kennedy.  It gives them a quality starting pitcher and allows them to shed some salary.  That is what I think it would take to get a deal done today.  

And we trade two relatively inexpensive starting pitchers this weakening our depth.

No thanks

[stormngt]

On 6/3/2018 at 11:54 AM, Chuckster70 said:

The Angels went out and got Grienke when they were 6 games out.

The other question is, if you wait another 2 months till the deadline this BP could have blown 5-10 more games, putting us out of even the WC contention.

That's my concern!  Another month like May and we could be 10 games out.  However rather out this season at risk than risking our future.

It's really a tough call.  I would consider trading trading two of Ward and Thais.  But I wouldnt want to throw in our starting pitching.

[Angel Oracle]

20 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

I agree with this.  We don't need to trade away the future for some elite BP arm.  We just need one or two better arms that what we have now.  That way we can still make a move to improve the offense at 3B, 2B or RF.

I'd focus on a trade for Herrera in July, if still in contention, and focus on the true elite closer during FA in the off-season.   Herrera won't cost a ton, but Hand would.

Focus on signing either Kimbrel or Familia after the season. 

Going forward, the big emphasis is on retaining solid starting pitching and of course Trout, Simmons, and Ohtani.   Trout and Simmons are the anchors in the field (along with Machete).   

[stormngt]

Hasn't Eppler stated he doesnt like spending big dollars on the bullpen because of the volatility of relievers?

[Stradling]

24 minutes ago, stormngt said:

And we trade two relatively inexpensive starting pitchers this weakening our depth.

No thanks

Not what I suggested.  I said one or the other.  

[Hubs]

I saw an article saying Brandon Marsh for Zach Britton. I'm fine with he, or Brad Hand, or Herrera depending on the cost.

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Yes but a lot of these runs are produced in games that are blow outs.  When the Angels go cold they go ice cold and it’s over solid stretches.  That’s indicative of a line up loaded with ineffective hitters.   But yea, when the Angels have been hitting they tend to pile on.  Doesn’t help us much game over game unfortunately. 

The bullpen I agree has issues.  But it’s also among the most heavily used in the majors.  I suspect if you pull up high leverage situations we’re among the leading teams.  We have several effective relievers.  We have several bad ones.  It seems like a mostly average situation to me. What we don’t have is a legitimate back end guy that can take away 3 or 4 AB’s at the end of the game.   Like I said.  I would pay a premium for Brad Hand.  Marsh, Jones.  Not Adell or Canning.  I think it would be a worth it. 

You’re sort of asking for bad results when you keep asking your bullpen to protect 1 run leads for 3 + innings. 

Over the past 33 games though, the starters are averaging nearly 6 innings/start.   The bullpen isn't piling up the innings like they did in April.   The problem is that none of them can be trusted in the 9th inning, and even the 8th inning sometimes.

A better offense would lead to fewer close games, and hence less true closing opps.

A better offense means that if they only added Herrera and another decent/solid guy for setup work to take pressure off Anderson/Parker, that might be enough with the better offense to catch the M's for the 2nd WC spot.

[UndertheHalo]

13 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Over the past 33 games though, the starters are averaging nearly 6 innings/start.   The bullpen isn't piling up the innings like they did in April.   The problem is that none of them can be trusted in the 9th inning, and even the 8th inning sometimes.

A better offense would lead to fewer close games, and hence less true closing opps.

A better offense means that if they only added Herrera and another decent/solid guy for setup work to take pressure off Anderson/Parker, that might be enough with the better offense to catch the M's for the 2nd WC spot.

Innings are innings.  They’ve been used a lot.  Even in May.  I’m personally wary of Herrera.  Obviously would take him but if we’re going to cough up worthwhile prospects for a reliever I think it’s wiser to pay more and get a guy that’s a more predictable quantity.  

[stormngt]

41 minutes ago, The Boogie Man said:

Not what I suggested.  I said one or the other.  

My bad.  Misread it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

As of now, im not for trading guys away for one year relievers. If its me, keep the farm intact. 

If its a multi year guy, that changes things...

[totdprods]

I'd think they could sneak in and grab a John Axford, Joakim Soria, Tyler Clippard, Brad Brach, Jared Hughes, Craig Stammen type - all guys who have a few guaranteed mil on their contracts, some of which are also pending FAs - for the cost of 15-35 ranked prospect at most, while eating said salary. 

If you need to acquire another arm later, so be it.

[Mark68]

23 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

I'd back the truck up to get Arenado. He reminds me a lot of Beltre

Rockies will want more than the truck and whatever's in it.

In other words, he's not going anywhere while the Rockies are fighting for the division.

[Mark68]

I still think we should explore a trade with the Reds for two or maybe all three of the following: Hughes, Hernandez, and Gennett.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Maybe we could get the trade done while they are in Anaheim. Ward and Maitan for Herrera?

[tdawg87]

18 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Yes but a lot of these runs are produced in games that are blow outs.  When the Angels go cold they go ice cold and it’s over solid stretches.  That’s indicative of a line up loaded with ineffective hitters.   But yea, when the Angels have been hitting they tend to pile on.  Doesn’t help us much game over game unfortunately. 

The bullpen I agree has issues.  But it’s also among the most heavily used in the majors.  I suspect if you pull up high leverage situations we’re among the leading teams.  We have several effective relievers.  We have several bad ones.  It seems like a mostly average situation to me. What we don’t have is a legitimate back end guy that can take away 3 or 4 AB’s at the end of the game.   Like I said.  I would pay a premium for Brad Hand.  Marsh, Jones.  Not Adell or Canning.  I think it would be a worth it. 

You’re sort of asking for bad results when you keep asking your bullpen to protect 1 run leads for 3 + innings. 

I don't think the pen needs an overhaul. But we desperately need a closer. I'd love another solid back end guy (lol) but I think between Parker, Ramirez, and Alvarez, we have a solid core. Just need an anchor to come in and shut the door in the 9th. Take some pressure off guys like Anderson and push Bedrosian into the mop-up role.

[VariousCrap]

2 hours ago, stormngt said:

Hasn't Eppler stated he doesnt like spending big dollars on the bullpen because of the volatility of relievers?

I don't know if he has ever publicly said that, but Jeff Fletcher has definitely implied that is the current theory of the organization.  I personally disagree with that theory and I believe if there is a really good arm out there that can anchor your BP, you get that arm.  The Angels theory definitely hasn't worked this season.  Of course, last year it did.  So who the F knows. lol