Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 549
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Trout and his two sons.....  

Before last night’s game, some of Mikey’s teammates were wearing his face!  

Posted Images

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

"Griffey" is trending on Twitter.

People are arguing if he was better than Trout.

I was a Griffey fan since he played nearby in the minors.... and the Angels hardly had any good position players in that Era. He was young... a few years older than me, always seemed to be having fun.  I'm still a fan.

I don't know the answer. I don't really care. Its just been a blast to watch a truly great player play for my favorite team.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, ScottT said:

"Griffey" is trending on Twitter.

People are arguing if he was better than Trout.

I was a Griffey fan since he played nearby in the minors.... and the Angels hardly had any good position players in that Era. He was young... a few years older than me, always seemed to be having fun.  I'm still a fan.

I don't know the answer. I don't really care. Its just been a blast to watch a truly great player play for my favorite team.

I don’t think it is debatable, if you consider advanced statistics and context. Further, Trout has consistently been the best player in the game throughout his career while Griffey was always second (Or third) fiddle to Bonds and A Rod.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's get into it a bit. Obviously we can't compare total careers, but barring a near-total (Griffey-esque) collapse in his 30s, Trout will almost certainly end up well surpassing Griffey. But what about peak? We can compare Trout's eight full seasons (2012-19) to Griffey's best eight-year span (1991-98):

Trout 2012-19: 72.7 WAR (1st ahead of Posey with 47.1), 175 wRC+ (1st ahead of Judge with 152)

Griffey 1991-98: 56.1 fWAR (2nd behind Bonds with 68.1), 150 wRC+ (8th)

This tells most of the story. Trout has been so much better than his peers in a way that Griffey wasn't. Griffey was consistently among the best players in the game, leading the majors in fWAR three times, second once, while Trout lead the majors six times, was second once.

Traditional stats:

Trout: .308/.422/.587, 280 HR, 883 Runs, 736 RBI, 196 SB

Griffey: .304/.386/.596, 312 HR, 788 Runs, 877 RBI, 111 SB

Similar BA. Griffey had a slight edge in HR and SLG, as well as more RBI, but Trout had a huge edge in OBP, as well as runs and SB. It should be noted that Griffey played in  a much higher scoring context and generally on a better team, so any edge he has is explained by that.

The bottom line is that Trout was a better player in terms of peak. Griffey was a better defender, but Trout was significantly better with the bat and solidly better on the base paths. Griffey was a great player, one of the best of the 90s and a top 10 CF of all time, but Trout is inner circle Hall of Fame.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Tradition stats can be overrated if you don't consider the run-scoring environment that a hitter plays in. Todd Helton's traditional numbers look a lot like Trout's but Trout never got to play at Coors Field for half of his games every single season. And no one would put Helton in the same class as Trout. 

 

As for Griffrey Jr., he's a better defender than Trout. Although defensive WAR is a stupid a flawed stat. It's been proven already. Guys like Pedro Alvarez (a poor defender) might put up a positive defensive WAR in a particular year. Doesn't make them good defenders. Trout's a better hitter than Griffrey in terms of OPS+ and it's not even close. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, agreed, but to be fair we really need to compare them through a similar age. They played almost exactly the same amount of games through age 27 (Trout's last full season, 2019), so the comparison is easy:

Trout through age 27 season (2019): 1199 games, .305/.419/.581, 285 HR, 200 SB, 172 wRC+, 73.4 fWAR

Griffey through age 27 season (1997): 1214 games, .302/.381/.562, 294 HR, 123 SB, 144 wRC+, 57.0 fWAR

1997 was Griffey's last season above 7 WAR, although he was still very good from 1998-2000, accruing another 16.9 fWAR, but then drastically declined from 2001 (age 31) on, never having another 3+ fWAR season.

Let us hope that Trout doesn't decline like Griffey (or Pujols) did.

Edited by Angelsjunky
Link to post
Share on other sites

Another way of comparing.

10 WAR seasons: Trout 2, Griffey 0 (Bonds 5)

9 WAR seasons: Trout 5, Griffey 2 (Bonds 8 )

8 WAR seasons: Trout 7, Griffey 3 (Bonds 10)

6 WAR seasons: Trout 8, Griffey 6 (Bonds 15)

That includes their entire careers and all 8 of Trout's full seasons. He hasn't had a chance to pad those numbers with decline years yet, but my guess is that he'll end up with more than double Griffey's 6 WAR seasons, just like he does with 8-10 WAR seasons.

EDITED to add in Bonds, for something for Trout to shoot for. There's little chance he'll catch Bonds' 10 WAR seasons, but all of the others are possible.

Edited by Angelsjunky
Link to post
Share on other sites

Until you brought it up, @Angelsjunky, I didn't remember that Griffey Jr. stole that many bases. When it comes to Bonds, it doesn't take away what he did from 1990-1998. 1998 was his last season without using steroids. The man could do everything well on the diamond. He was Trout before Trout became Trout. Well, minus the attitude problems. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2020 at 1:39 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Let's get into it a bit. Obviously we can't compare total careers, but barring a near-total (Griffey-esque) collapse in his 30s, Trout will almost certainly end up well surpassing Griffey. But what about peak? We can compare Trout's eight full seasons (2012-19) to Griffey's best eight-year span (1991-98):

Trout 2012-19: 72.7 WAR (1st ahead of Posey with 47.1), 175 wRC+ (1st ahead of Judge with 152)

Griffey 1991-98: 56.1 fWAR (2nd behind Bonds with 68.1), 150 wRC+ (8th)

This tells most of the story. Trout has been so much better than his peers in a way that Griffey wasn't. Griffey was consistently among the best players in the game, leading the majors in fWAR three times, second once, while Trout lead the majors six times, was second once.

Traditional stats:

Trout: .308/.422/.587, 280 HR, 883 Runs, 736 RBI, 196 SB

Griffey: .304/.386/.596, 312 HR, 788 Runs, 877 RBI, 111 SB

Similar BA. Griffey had a slight edge in HR and SLG, as well as more RBI, but Trout had a huge edge in OBP, as well as runs and SB. It should be noted that Griffey played in  a much higher scoring context and generally on a better team, so any edge he has is explained by that.

The bottom line is that Trout was a better player in terms of peak. Griffey was a better defender, but Trout was significantly better with the bat and solidly better on the base paths. Griffey was a great player, one of the best of the 90s and a top 10 CF of all time, but Trout is inner circle Hall of Fame.

 

Griffey also played in a hitting friendly stadium through 1998.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...