Howie Kendrick

[CubsFan]

20 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Those numbers are pretty close to average, @Inside Pitch. I'll grant you that Howie was usually an above average hitter for a second baseman, but not significantly so. And as I said, being consistently average to above average is pretty good. So I'm not knocking him for being what he was.

As far as his all-time ranking as a second baseman, it is interesting to look at who some of the players are who are ranking similarly and with similar PA. Brian Roberts, Ray Durham, Luis Castillo, Robby Thompson, Mark Ellis, etc....pretty much the Hall of the Above Average.

Jose Altuve is close, but he's played over 400 fewer games and will jump over all of these guys.

Luis Castillo, Roberts.

good guys for fantasy baseball.

they don't hurt your average and they give you something like stolen bases.

[Angelsjunky]

29 minutes ago, CubsFan said:

Luis Castillo, Roberts.

they were good guys for fantasy baseball.

they didn't hurt your average and they gave you something like stolen bases.

Fixed.

[Troll Daddy]

 

[Dick B Back]

23 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

 

Poor Howie, sucks for him. He does have that smiling “look I’m high before surgery” look.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

Poor Howie, sucks for him. He does have that smiling “look I’m high before surgery” look.

Howie wowie...

[disarcina]

I missed this-- when did it happen --- always liked Howie.........had a long successful Halos career. Was always a gamer.

Versatile. MIF some OF , could run which means he could be inserted in late innings as a PR and then as a defensive replacement at 2B.

I hope this isn't the end of his career but certainly a turning point to the end.

Am sure Howie -- he played what? 10-12 seasons for us? -- is in the the top ten All-Time on a lot of Halos' stat categories.

Always rooted for Howie even after he left our Halos and played for the Dogs.........and he played well for the Dodgers -- not sure why they didn't keep him.

[101halo]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

2B has just been an incredibly weak position in the AL for most of it's history.   

It's really kinda nutty how many guys we would classify as "meh" rank highly ..  For instance.  Adam Kennedy is among the top 100 in WAR at 2B.  I'm not saying AK sucked -- but would anyone have believed he would be among the top 100 2b all time? (using WAR).

Its against that back drop that I believe Howie is better than people realize.

I originally wrote something in awe of how bad 2B has been via WAR in history, before looking at it across all positions. Almost every position has only ~20 guys pass 60 WAR over a career (generally considered safe HOF territory). So, I think it may be that more players play multiple positions throughout a career than either of us think, thus splitting their WAR accordingly. 1B makes this seem likely, as it has the most 60+ members, and we know it's the easiest position, so least likely to need to switch later in career. 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, 101halo said:

I originally wrote something in awe of how bad 2B has been via WAR in history, before looking at it across all positions. Almost every position has only ~20 guys pass 60 WAR over a career (generally considered safe HOF territory). So, I think it may be that more players play multiple positions throughout a career than either of us think, thus splitting their WAR accordingly. 1B makes this seem likely, as it has the most 60+ members, and we know it's the easiest position, so least likely to need to switch later in career. 

2b has historically been a weak offensive position ... It's also sees a tremendous amount of churn.   Back in the pre-PED days the thinking was anyone with 700 games at 2b was a ticking time bomb...   

What you're right about is that most positions see guys move off them, where second base has been different is that most guys don't tend to move off 2b to a different position..... they go from 2b to retired.... Rod Carew is probably the best example of a 2b that moved off second and extended his career for a significant length of time.    Craig Biggio spent a few seasons in the OF before moving back but as a whole it's not the norm....

[CubsFan]

15 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

2b has historically been a weak offensive position ... It's also sees a tremendous amount of churn.   Back in the pre-PED days the thinking was anyone with 700 games at 2b was a ticking time bomb...   

What you're right about is that most positions see guys move off them, where second base has been different is that most guys don't tend to move off 2b to a different position..... they go from 2b to retired.... Rod Carew is probably the best example of a 2b that moved off second and extended his career for a significant length of time.    Craig Biggio spent a few seasons in the OF before moving back but as a whole it's not the norm....

Biggio is just a freak of nature.

who else can play catcher and 2nd base at a high level.