Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

War and first baseman?


Recommended Posts

Why do so many first baseman have negative defensive War? According to baseball reference JT Snow had a career - 10.8 defensive war. How can that be though. He saved tons of guns a day there is no way a replacement level player would do better than him. Even. Restart had several negative war seasons at first base. Same with John Olerud, Keith Hernandez etc. These guys saved so many runs, especially with the way they picked balls in the dirt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Why do so many first baseman have negative defensive War? According to baseball reference JT Snow had a career - 10.8 defensive war. How can that be though. He saved tons of guns a day there is no way a replacement level player would do better than him. Even. Restart had several negative war seasons at first base. Same with John Olerud, Keith Hernandez etc. These guys saved so many runs, especially with the way they picked balls in the dirt. 

Exactly how many guns did JT Snow save?

I know I shouldn't be talking with my typos but I have learned to laugh at them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, happybat4 said:

Why do so many first baseman have negative defensive War? According to baseball reference JT Snow had a career - 10.8 defensive war. How can that be though. He saved tons of guns a day there is no way a replacement level player would do better than him. Even. Restart had several negative war seasons at first base. Same with John Olerud, Keith Hernandez etc. These guys saved so many runs, especially with the way they picked balls in the dirt. 

You know how Derek Jeter made a ton of great plays going to the hole and jump throwing to first base? He saved a ton of runs and he won 5 gold gloves. How could he have a negative 8.3  dWAR?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

You know how Derek Jeter made a ton of great plays going to the hole and jump throwing to first base? He saved a ton of runs and he won 5 gold gloves. How could he have a negative 8.3  dWAR?

But all first baseman have negative wars. Occasionally one will have a .4 season. You can not be serious saying Snow was not a good defensive first baseman. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, happybat4 said:

But all first baseman have negative wars. Occasionally one will have a .4 season. You can not be serious saying Snow was not a good defensive first baseman. 

There is a defensive penalty for playing first base. They don't get many chances and don't have to make many hard plays. They all catch 99+% of balls thrown to them. So to be better than average is very very very hard.They simply don't get enough chances to make plays for there to be much difference between good ones and bad ones so having a bad one there doesn't really matter. Having a good bat there is what differentiates first basemen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

There is a defensive penalty for playing first base. They don't get many chances and don't have to make many hard plays. They all catch 99+% of balls thrown to them. So to be better than average is very very very hard.They simply don't get enough chances to make plays for there to be much difference between good ones and bad ones so having a bad one there doesn't really matter. Having a good bat there is what differentiates first basemen. 

But I thought it was against an average replacement. The average defensive first baseman can not play defense as good as an Erstad or JT Snow, but this says they are worst than average. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

But I thought it was against an average replacement. The average defensive first baseman can not play defense as good as an Erstad or JT Snow, but this says they are worst than average. 

I think it's against a replacement level player, not a replacement level 1B. They would be expected to produce less defensive value compared to the average replacement player. But I could be wrong. They might just not be that good defensively. It's hard to judge by the eye test, especially with 1B when they don't get many chances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I think it's against a replacement level player, not a replacement level 1B. They would be expected to produce less defensive value compared to the average replacement player. But I could be wrong. They might just not be that good defensively. It's hard to judge by the eye test, especially with 1B when they don't get many chances.

But I can't find a single first baseman with a positive career defensive  WAR. How can every first baseman in history be worse than an average replacement at defense? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't the issue that there is not positive metric for throwing error avoided?  The first baseman may have dug the throw out of the dirt, avoided an error on the SS, and recorded the out, but is there a stat for that? As a result, that skill is hard to quantify. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

Isn't the issue that there is not positive metric for throwing error avoided?  The first baseman may have dug the throw out of the dirt, avoided an error on the SS, and recorded the out, but is there a stat for that? As a result, that skill is hard to quantify. 

I don't know, that's why I am asking. I just can't believe that Snow, Hernandez and Don Mattingly were negative defensive players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Throwman91 said:

Speaking of 1Bman Cron has 10 HR batting .289

Well, to be fair, we effectively chose Marte over Cron.  In roughly one third of the ABs, Marte has posted just about the same WAR as Cron.  So, in the "war" of Marte vs. Cron, Marte is more valuable on a per AB basis by a significant amount.

That said, if you compare Cron to Pujols, well.. okay, yeah.  :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...