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Rookie of the Year Competition


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2 hours ago, CubsFan said:

 One doesn't know how the majority of the baseball writers will vote.

You would hope they would say dual threat phenom ROY end of story.

But this is a unique situation and if you get enough traditionalist with horseshoes up their behinds, who split Ohtanis stats in half instead of aggregating them fully anything can happen.  Especially if you have competiton that has stud full time plate appearance numbers or Othanis era slips to 4.50

i think the year 21 year old Ruben Sierra was up for MVP is a prime example.  Sierra has the best numbers by far and everyone thought he was going to win MVP.  

The Rangers setup a press conference for him with all his friends and family.  It was like Tommy DeVito being Made.  The excitement was palpable for the MVP coronation.

and then the announcement was made . . . The baseball writers voted veteran Robin Yount!

Sierra never recovered from that embarrassment and humiliation and let it effect him mentally.  Instead of being the rising franchise superstar favorite son that everyone around the league praised that bitterness turned him into a career journeyman and a what if squandering of potential.

Point is anything can happen especially where there isn't some set criteria on top of this being a unique case that we really haven't come across before

 

Well, im not wure i agree with you. But, still, the goodfellas reference deserves kudos.

Ruben Sierra...."and dats, dat."

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2 hours ago, CubsFan said:

 One doesn't know how the majority of the baseball writers will vote.

You would hope they would say dual threat phenom ROY end of story.

But this is a unique situation and if you get enough traditionalist with horseshoes up their behinds, who split Ohtanis stats in half instead of aggregating them fully anything can happen.  Especially if you have competiton that has stud full time plate appearance numbers or Othanis era slips to 4.50

i think the year 21 year old Ruben Sierra was up for MVP is a prime example.  Sierra has the best numbers by far and everyone thought he was going to win MVP.  

The Rangers setup a press conference for him with all his friends and family.  It was like Tommy DeVito being Made.  The excitement was palpable for the MVP coronation.

and then the announcement was made . . . The baseball writers voted veteran Robin Yount!

Sierra never recovered from that embarrassment and humiliation and let it effect him mentally.  Instead of being the rising franchise superstar favorite son that everyone around the league praised that bitterness turned him into a career journeyman and a what if squandering of potential.

Point is anything can happen especially where there isn't some set criteria on top of this being a unique case that we really haven't come across before

 

First you are right, we really dont know what will influence the writers vote. There very well maybe an east coast bias (isn't there always one) or maybe unwritten law that any qualified yankee has to win the award.   

However there maybe a bias in favor of Ohtani.  The living up to the hype may also influence the vote.  

Finally as we discuss who is currently in the lead we obviously we wouldnt be taking the east coast views into account.

I do have one question for you.  How do you know emotional state of mind of Sierra to make the conclusion that he was humiliated and embarrassed that caused him to be a journeyman?

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1 minute ago, stormngt said:

First you are right, we really dont know what will influence the writers vote. There very well maybe an east coast bias (isn't there always one) or maybe unwritten law that any qualified yankee has to win the award.   

However there maybe a bias in favor of Ohtani.  The living up to the hype may also influence the vote.  

Finally as we discuss who is currently in the lead we obviously we wouldnt be taking the east coast views into account.

I do have one question for you.  How do you know emotional state of mind of Sierra to make the conclusion that he was humiliated and embarrassed that caused him to be a journeyman?

It was often talked about (the bitterness) in articles about him the years following his humiliation.  Yount winning was considered a robbery by many but was justified by defense (which wasn't quantifiable) and being on a better team and giving it to the veteran.  This was right before the steroid era, so 29 homers and 119 rbis were great numbers as were his 14 triples.

His stats in the next couple years were still okay but he never did eclipse the 119 rbi, 29 homers and 14 triples that he hit that year.  He had such a precipitous decline and like I said many people commented on the bitterness and sadness in his eyes after the failed MVP coronation.  Instead of taking it as a challenge (he had his whole career ahead of him), he let that one moment bring him down and define his career.

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/4/4/2086105/the-unique-career-of-ruben-sierra

Not too long ago, in a post about Nomar Garciaparra's peak, I wrote:

I can't find another player who packed so much of his career value (94.8%) into a half dozen seasons.

Welp, I found one.

 

Sierra_medium

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"The awards started in 1989 when Ruben Sierra was overlooked by the Baseball Writers Association of American (BBWAA) for the American League MVP and gave it to Robin Yount of the then-Milwaukee Brewers. Yount had a good year as well, but the young Sierra playing in his third year with the Texas Rangers had led the league in five of the offensive categories. Many sports writers, especially those from Puerto Rico and many cities in the mainland with large concentration of Puerto Ricans and Latinos believed Sierra should have been the American League MVP.

That year, I was in Puerto Rico vacationing with my family when I first learned about Sierra. I stumbled onto a group of sports writers in the hotel who were having a heated conversation about the BBWAA vote and how they had overlooked Sierra."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/julio-pabon/the-latino-mvp-winners-ar_b_7142354.html

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DALLAS - — Ruben Sierra went from near-MVP in 1989 to oblivion at age 31.It received only a couple of paragraphs in Wednesday's sports section, under the tiny headline of "Reds cut Sierra."

True confession: Reading it, I felt a pang of sympathy. But please, don't spread that around, OK?

Ruben Sierra deserves no sympathy for the destruction of his baseball career. And besides, Ruben can comfort himself with the $6 million he's owed this season whether he ever swings another bat.

But "Reds cut Sierra" is like a career obituary. When Cincinnati, an awful outfit, dumps you, it's the same as baseball death, or being kissed on the lips by Marge Schott. Plus, in the last 22 months, the Reds became the fourth team to say it no longer desired the services, or the presence, of Ruben.

At the career-prime age of 31, Sierra is finished in baseball, probably even as a bench player. Most teams wouldn't want him in the clubhouse.

If there had been an injury ... well, there wasn't.

"To me, Ruben is a friend, but he is also the greatest talent wasted in 29 years I've been involved in baseball," said Luis Mayoral, a Rangers front-office executive who has known Sierra since he was a youngster in Puerto Rico.

Mayoral is not alone on this. In Sierra, there has certainly never been a greater waste to come through the Rangers' organization. And not a better

 
 overall talent, including Juan Gonzalez.

Because of that, maybe I misread personal sympathy Wednesday morning - it was probably nostalgia in remembering the sleek package who arrived in Arlington in 1986 as a 20-year-old. The Rangers' farm system had never produced anything like Sierra. He was blessed with "The Five," scout talk reserved for only the ultimate in ability, meaning a player who can hit for power and average and can run, throw and field.

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In addition, Sierra had a ready smile, a shy yet charming personality and a desire to learn the game. One year later, he hit 30 homers, drove in 109 runs, and I thought, "Cooperstown, here he comes."In 1989, Sierra arguably should have won the AL MVP, finishing second to Milwaukee's Robin Yount.

But fast-forward the calendar to 1991, and by then the biggest concern among Rangers officials was Sierra's befriending a rookie named Juan Gonzalez. Ruben already was considered a clubhouse plague, even while on his way to 116 RBI that season.

And it wasn't just the Rangers, either. Sierra later was held in the same low regard in Oakland, then with the Yankees, and finally Detroit. The Tigers even paid $5.5 million of Ruben's salary this season just so Cincinnati would take him.

What, then, happened to Ruben Sierra?

Tom Grieve, the former Rangers' general manager and now a member of the telecast team, only wishes he could pinpoint this demise, both as a player and person.

"The Ruben who came up through our minor league system was a happy, funny, clever kid," said Grieve. "But the longer he was in the big leagues, the more sullen and sour he became. Ruben was jealous of Nolan [Ryan). He was even jealous of Inky [Pete Incaviglia). The change in him was scary." Then there was the physical transformation from sleek to ...

By the early '90s, Sierra had become a weight-lifting fanatic. Grieve remembers the shock of seeing Sierra show up for spring training having added 30 pounds. There was much muscle, but there also was a gut involved.

Before the 1992 season, Ruben won a $5 million arbitration settlement and also rejected a five-year, $25 million contract offer from the Rangers. Later that season, he was dealt to Oakland for Jose Canseco, a great trade, as it turned out, for Grieve. It was the beginning of Sierra's career slide.

"The bottom line on Ruben is I don't think he could cope with the big money," said Mayoral. "Once he won the $5 million in arbitration, he wasn't prepared to handle it, on the field or off. He thought he had to hit 100 home runs a season to be worth that money."

Mayoral was hired by the Rangers in 1992 as "Latin American liaison," to help guide the careers of young Latinos, starting in the rookie leagues. He obviously has had a positive impact on Gonzalez and Pudge Rodriguez, but with Sierra it was too late.

"I would like to think I could have made a difference," said Mayoral, "but Ruben had reached the point where he didn't want to listen to anyone, except he was allowing himself to be influenced by the wrong people. He lost touch with reality. To this day, Ruben still expects the Rangers to retire his number ... I'm serious.

"Deep down, Ruben is a good guy. I know him, and I know that. But he's now a sad example of what can happen. At age 31, he should be a superstar headed for the Hall of Fame. Instead, he's finished."

 

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1997-05-11/sports/9705100234_1_ruben-sierra-milwaukee-s-robin-yount-juan-gonzalez

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1 minute ago, CubsFan said:

Interestingly, Joe Pesci was friends with Franki Valli and helped him start the Four Seasons before he became an actor.

And Sierra also had a signing career in Puerto Rico.

And hence, Pesci using the character name Tommy DeVito in Goodfellas

I had forgotten that the Four Seasons went back to mid 1950's, when they were called the Four Lovers and appeared on Ed Sullivan in 1956. 

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1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

And hence, Pesci using the character name Tommy DeVito in Goodfellas

I had forgotten that the Four Seasons went back to mid 1950's, when they were called the Four Lovers and appeared on Ed Sullivan in 1956. 

If you haven't seen it you should watch Clint Eastwood's musical Jersey Boys.   Good movie. It's all about the formation and career of the Four Seasons and an actor portraying Pesci appears during the beginning sequences.

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14 minutes ago, CubsFan said:

If you haven't seen it you should watch Clint Eastwood's musical Jersey Boys.   Good movie. It's all about the formation and career of the Four Seasons and an actor portraying Pesci appears during the beginning sequences.

I did see it in Vegas at the Palazzo about 9 years ago, and saw the movie in 2014.    Really enjoyed both.

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34 minutes ago, CubsFan said:

It was often talked about (the bitterness) in articles about him the years following his humiliation.  Yount winning was considered a robbery by many but was justified by defense (which wasn't quantifiable) and being on a better team and giving it to the veteran.  This was right before the steroid era, so 29 homers and 119 rbis were great numbers as were his 14 triples.

His stats in the next couple years were still okay but he never did eclipse the 119 rbi, 29 homers and 14 triples that he hit that year.  He had such a precipitous decline and like I said many people commented on the bitterness and sadness in his eyes after the failed MVP coronation.  Instead of taking it as a challenge (he had his whole career ahead of him), he let that one moment bring him down and define his career.

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/4/4/2086105/the-unique-career-of-ruben-sierra

Not too long ago, in a post about Nomar Garciaparra's peak, I wrote:

I can't find another player who packed so much of his career value (94.8%) into a half dozen seasons.

Welp, I found one.

 

Sierra_medium

Thanks for the response.  I have to say Sierra had to be very mentally weak to let an individual award in one year end up destroying his career.

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I'm sorry to say to you but if the season ended today, Ohtani no doubt wins AL Rookie of the Year. Only reason why he might not win it, which would be ridiculous, would be because of East Coast Bias folks.

Ohtani has a better slash line than Torres despite the fact that he plays at a pitchers park for his home games, while Torres has the benefit of playing at hitters friendly Yankee Stadium.

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Ohtani is the talk of baseball. Barring any type of injuries he’s going to be the AL RoY. 

Would love to see Ohtani participate in the Home Run Derby (doesn’t need to win) and start at DH in the All Star Game while getting to pitch at least one inning. I think it would add historical value to Ohtani, MLB and the Angels. 

Only Ohtani could pull that off. 

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On 5/11/2018 at 8:42 PM, OHTANILAND said:

Ohtani is the talk of baseball. Barring any type of injuries he’s going to be the AL RoY. 

Would love to see Ohtani participate in the Home Run Derby (doesn’t need to win) and start at DH in the All Star Game while getting to pitch at least one inning. I think it would add historical value to Ohtani, MLB and the Angels. 

Only Ohtani could pull that off. 

Ohtani will be the starting DH in the All-Star Game. The Japanese influx of votes will put him there.

He is going to finish the season with 25 games started and an ERA below 3. That would be enough. However, he's also going to have 300-350 PA, with an OPS over .950.

 

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17 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Ohtani will be the starting DH in the All-Star Game. The Japanese influx of votes will put him there.

He is going to finish the season with 25 games started and an ERA below 3. That would be enough. However, he's also going to have 300-350 PA, with an OPS over .950.

 

Why not starting pitcher as well (from the influx)

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On 5/11/2018 at 1:20 PM, CubsFan said:

It's not clear to me who votes for rookie of the month.  Just says the league votes for it.

with rookie of the year, it's the baseball writers of America.

I vote for the monthly awards. I think each team gives the ballot to their beat writers and broadcasters. 

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