Trade Market!!!!

[Angel Oracle]

16 hours ago, IEAngelsfan said:

No way!

Next you're going to tell me that Brendan Donnelly was juicing also.

That was "allegedly" a stickier substance that one doesn't ingest.   Just ask Frank Robinson and Jose "Loose Cannon" Guillen.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

I'd like to add Hand to the team.

 

Aloha!

Next time, make sure the pizza has extra pepperoni and mushrooms!

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I am not Jeff nor do I have his wisdom, but I will take a stab at this:

Tanking teams get better draft picks (due to having worse records), and come the trading deadline, they can trade their players for future young talent that they can cultivate and, hopefully, arrive around the same time to form a strong, young nucleus.

The Cubs and Astros both famously did this, and it led to their title years.  The Braves and Phillies are teams in the midst of this process, and we are already seeing the positive effects of it for those two franchises.  The White Sox and Tigers just started, so we'll see where that goes for them.

It's not just in baseball that we see this.  Basketball is notorious for having teams that completely tank in order to rebuild their core.

Yes, while i agree that the most obvious answer, in MLB unlike the NBA/NFL there is literally zero guarantee those guys will ever be anything, and none of them are coming in the following season to make an impact.  
Yes, you're percentages of getting better guys is higher, but the outcome of that isnt known for many years and we all know how many cant miss guys have missed by a mile in this game.

 

1 hour ago, Dick B Back said:

I’m not Jeff but I’d gladly take a stab at an answer. The teams tanking are either poorly constructed, i.e. Reds, Pads, White Sox, Orioles, or because their ownership sold out the fans like the Miami Jeters.

I'm in this camp, which is why i was curious to hear Jeff's view.  I think more of them are trying to leverage profit sharing and other such things moreso than i think they are playing the draft game. 
Many of these teams in this list have been drafting at the top for a long time, and still have virtually nothing to show for it, further illustrating how dicey the draft strategy is in this game.    
The A's have turned masterminding draft and prospect commodities into an art form, whats it done for them?

I guess for me the obvious "better draft position" thing is such a crapshoot in MLB versus other sports its hard to see it as a guaranteed viable strategy.   I look at the last 20 years for example and the #1 overall picks have nearly as many busts as successes, though some of the successes have been hugely so.  Its not the guarantee it is in other sports.

[Angel Oracle]

The tv contracts play a large part in it too.    Most of the teams with those big tv contracts have the money to add strategic acquisitions while also building their farm, plus they can pay enough of those players to stay upon hitting FA.    The Royals, Twins, A'th, Ray, Jeters, Pirates, Reds, etc. are thus always struggling to keep their best players from leaving.

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The tv contracts play a large part in it too.    Most of the teams with those big tv contracts have the money to add strategic acquisitions while also building their farm, plus they can pay enough of those players to stay upon hitting FA.    The Royals, Twins, A'th, Ray, Jeters, Pirates, Reds, etc. are thus always struggling to keep their best players from leaving.

Wouldnt tanking make that self fulfilling though more than justification?  i mean who wants to stay in that type of environment if you are losing AND not really getting paid your worth?  Its a Viscious circle i agree but outright tanking certainly wont help it.
and don't get me started on Derek (Rachel Phelps) Jeter, i think his plan has plane tickets attached. 

[Dick B Back]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Aloha!

Next time, make sure the pizza has extra pepperoni and mushrooms!

[Warfarin]

54 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yes, while i agree that the most obvious answer, in MLB unlike the NBA/NFL there is literally zero guarantee those guys will ever be anything, and none of them are coming in the following season to make an impact.  
Yes, you're percentages of getting better guys is higher, but the outcome of that isnt known for many years and we all know how many cant miss guys have missed by a mile in this game.

 

I'm in this camp, which is why i was curious to hear Jeff's view.  I think more of them are trying to leverage profit sharing and other such things moreso than i think they are playing the draft game. 
Many of these teams in this list have been drafting at the top for a long time, and still have virtually nothing to show for it, further illustrating how dicey the draft strategy is in this game.    
The A's have turned masterminding draft and prospect commodities into an art form, whats it done for them?

I guess for me the obvious "better draft position" thing is such a crapshoot in MLB versus other sports its hard to see it as a guaranteed viable strategy.   I look at the last 20 years for example and the #1 overall picks have nearly as many busts as successes, though some of the successes have been hugely so.  Its not the guarantee it is in other sports.

I think in the end though, that's what it's all about - trying to do what you can to get better in the end.  I agree that it's foolhardy to rely on higher draft picks to get you there (at least, in comparison to the NBA, NFL, etc), but at least if you are trading players, you can acquire prospects in AAA/AA, and those prospects are more of a guarantee than just drafting someone.  Yes, still a risk and still an unknown, but at least more of a guarantee.

Think of it this way:  the downside is you aren't competitive, but at least you aren't overpaying a bunch of aging veterans to not get anywhere.  So even if your rebuild doesn't pan out, your salary commitment is still low.  Obviously this sucks for fans, but I can see how ownership could view it this way.  As has been already stated too, the biggest contributor to owner wealth are the TV contracts, not ticket sales.

[Taylor]

3 hours ago, Glen said:

I'd like to add Hand to the team.

[Mark68]

22 hours ago, floplag said:

So... how does one guy putting in at best a couple extra innings every 5th day help more than a guy that can come in 4-5 days a week?

We need quality reliever far more than we need a SP with this staff.   One starter wont change the load on the pen, one good reliever can take a lot of strain off them needed to go deeper.

SP are over payed and over valued IMO.  I would rather have 5 lights out relievers than 5 starters all day.  Lets the starters go 6, if the pen is good enough its all we need.   You put so much money into one guy, if he falters, you have nothing behind him.  This roster as it stands does not need an ace, it needs lockdown in the pen.  One starter will costs too much in trade, and wont make enough difference.
 

It's not either/or. The Angels need another starting pitcher, one who is good and will give us depth. The Angels also need bullpen depth. There are two months to identify candidates, but Michael Fulmer is a young cost-controlled pitcher who doesn't walk anybody and doesn't give up bombs. In other words, with our defense, he would profile very well in the rotation. He's the type of pitcher that I believes Eppler thinks highly of.

However, being that he is cost-controlled for another four years, the Tigers will want a lot.

Adell could be a star. Or, he could be Brandon Wood/Dallas McPherson.

I would do it, but if we're trading for a Tiger, I think I'd rather have Candelario or Castellanos.

[Angel Oracle]

There was a Rich Hand who pitched in the early 1970s mainly for the Indians and Rangers and was nothing extra, although he ended his MLB career with the Halos in 1973 with a decent 3.62 ERA (but also a Bridwellesque 3 Ks/9 innings) over 54 innings for them.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Glen said:

I'd like to add Hand to the team.

 

on my first class period of my first day as a teacher, i greeted my class by saying "aloha."

RIP, Mr. Hand. #gonebutnotforgotten

[floplag]

30 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think in the end though, that's what it's all about - trying to do what you can to get better in the end.  I agree that it's foolhardy to rely on higher draft picks to get you there (at least, in comparison to the NBA, NFL, etc), but at least if you are trading players, you can acquire prospects in AAA/AA, and those prospects are more of a guarantee than just drafting someone.  Yes, still a risk and still an unknown, but at least more of a guarantee.

Think of it this way:  the downside is you aren't competitive, but at least you aren't overpaying a bunch of aging veterans to not get anywhere.  So even if your rebuild doesn't pan out, your salary commitment is still low.  Obviously this sucks for fans, but I can see how ownership could view it this way.  As has been already stated too, the biggest contributor to owner wealth are the TV contracts, not ticket sales.

I feel like thats the driving issue, its isnt about competitiveness, or even trying to be competitive really, its about maximizing profits. 

[floplag]

8 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

It's not either/or. The Angels need another starting pitcher, one who is good and will give us depth. The Angels also need bullpen depth. There are two months to identify candidates, but Michael Fulmer is a young cost-controlled pitcher who doesn't walk anybody and doesn't give up bombs. In other words, with our defense, he would profile very well in the rotation. He's the type of pitcher that I believes Eppler thinks highly of.

However, being that he is cost-controlled for another four years, the Tigers will want a lot.

Adell could be a star. Or, he could be Brandon Wood/Dallas McPherson.

I would do it, but if we're trading for a Tiger, I think I'd rather have Candelario or Castellanos.

Oh but it is, unless you think they shell out for both, which i dont think they will. 
You dont have to convince me regarding prospects and the hit miss aspects of them, we have been the poster organization for that in recent memory in many ways.
Bottom line, if you have to chose or prioritize, for me its pen first, second, and possibly third before a starter.  The idea is simple, make whoever starts only needing to go 5 or 6, shorten the game

[Hubs]

Any starting pitching add is going to have to come from the Angels own minor league system, as there is no one out there that is likely to be available for a reasonable price and a reasonable contract. Everyone who might be available is likely to high of a price in prospects or dollars.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

The tanking question is a whole different thread....

In the NBA it’s about the draft. In baseball it’s about money and hording prospects. 

The only way to be good for an extended period is to have a core of young players all in their prime at once. If you have a lot of good cheap players, you only need a few expensive ones to supplement.

There’s no reason to spend money on the expensive ones until you have enough of the cheap ones, so if teams aren’t there yet, they don’t. They just keep all their young players and try to get as many as they can from other teams in trades. 

The primary goal is to save money and develop as many young players as possible. It is not to lose to get a higher draft pick, because there’s not that much difference between picking 3 and 9 (unlike the NBA).

If you happen to lose and get a higher pick, that’s OK, but no team would rather lose. If your young players win and play in a winning environment, even if it only gets you 80 wins, that helps them develop. What you wouldn’t do is play veteran players over young players so you can win 80 instead of 70.

[Pujols4MVP]

21 hours ago, LHalo said:

Miss that dude.

Totally.

[Pujols4MVP]

19 hours ago, IEAngelsfan said:

Man, Fullmer looks like he's full on rage and wants to tear someone's head off.  What would make a person do this?

He's a Zombie from iZombie tv series. Last time the Angels acquired a 'Fullmer' they won the WS

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

on my first class period of my first day as a teacher, i greeted my class by saying "aloha."

RIP, Mr. Hand. #gonebutnotforgotten

But did your students ever bring you pizza?

[Angel Oracle]

23 hours ago, LHalo said:

Miss that dude.

He looks like the WWE's Jinder Mahal.    Talk about scows.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

But did your students ever bring you pizza?

Nope, and that's why 37 year old Stacy is still an 8th grader.