Calhoun and Bunting

[jordan]

Let's say Kole comes up to the plate in a situation when a base runner is needed, like in the 9th and down 1 run.  With the funk he's in, I would hope that bunting is an option if they give him the whole left side of the infield. 

[UndertheHalo]

19 minutes ago, Blarg said:

 

2) Practice, it's how players get better at any given skill they are lacking. 

3) Are you nuts? A few cheap hits is what propels offenses and raises a players batting average from DFA to above replacement level.

4) Calhoun's problem is the shift, he is a pull hitter trying to find a hole in a four man right side. Reducing that to three opens holes to get something to through.

I’ll just respond to these. 

2: I’m presuming he’s not great.  I could be wrong.  In any case how often will this go on for ? Not long enough to it to matter I suspect.

3: my wording was imperfect, but I sincerely doubt we’re talking about more then 2 or 3 events that result in being on base.  Certainly not enough to matter that much. 

4: I’m just saying, he’s not making good enough contact to blame the shift for his issues.  Obviously it’s ideal for Kole to not have to deal with the shift.  I just don’t buy that him going up and bunting a few times will change much with how teams play him.  I guess he hasn’t done it, so we don’t know.  My original point in all this is that people are making way to big a deal about it. In my opinion. 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

9 minutes ago, jordan said:

Let's say Kole comes up to the plate in a situation when a base runner is needed, like in the 9th and down 1 run.  With the funk he's in, I would hope that bunting is an option if they give him the whole left side of the infield. 

This is a situation where we do maybe want to consider a bunt !

[UndertheHalo]

20 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Another great post by Blarg. Why can't you guys be more like him?

I guess we can’t all be perfect.  I regularly fail  to live up to the Blarg standard. 

[Griffey's Corner]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Dude I don’t care if you respond or not. 

This is your record in the thread.

• Its Scoscia’s fault that Kole isn’t hitting because he’s not ordering him to bunt. 
• Bunting is easy
• MLB players use to hit .400 “all the time”
• Calhoun would be a .270 hitter if only he would lay down a few bunts and stop the shift from being played against him. 

Maybe I missed some other winners.  I don’t know.

 You said that the Angels, from an analytics perspective held a position that Pujols was a good hitter because of RBI.  That is objectively false.  There was no analytics involved in the comments from Scoscia or Eppler.  The entire premise of that article was that various analytics are bullshit and Pujols is a MOTO hitter cause Pujols and RBI.  That was pretty much the Angels position.  Entirely.  

Its completely different from what Mulwin444 was saying about why they haven’t sat Kole down and told him to bunt. 

Thank you bringing up my record. every point I would stand by. But let's not misquote .....Point #1 it is not just the managers flaw.... it's more of a collective effort.

 

Point #2 bunting is easy. and it's a lot easier than taking a stride and full swing and trying to hit a 95 mile an hour fastball.

Point #3 "all the time"..... I corrected myself & said that it has happened quite a bit. In the small ball era it did happen a lot. batters approach at the plate was completely different.... they would have bunted against the shift..... If Trout goes on this year to hit .345 with 55 HR's I could convince myself that if he only tried to hit singles than one extra hit out of 20 for Trout would not have been impossible.

 

Point #4.... this one is really embarrassing that I even have to explain. Calhoun is a lifetime .262 hitter before this season. If 1 extra ball goes through a month because of there being no shift than that actually puts him above .270. I really do feel silly having to explain that too anyone.

 

My point on the analytics was he clearly said to trust the Angels front office & their analytic team..... if I am going to do that than I am left thinking why is Pujols playing every day and batting cleanup. The very presence of Pujols batting cleanup every day proves my whole point on that part of the discussion. Thanks for playing. I will try to remember both of you so I don't alienate either of you in future discussions. i truly feel like I have lost an hour of my life that I will not get back.

[Jeff Fletcher]

There are a few false premises going on here...

1. The shift is the reason Calhoun is struggling.

No. They have been shifting him basically ever since he got to the big leagues. He’s hit well in the past despite the shift. He’s actually not pulling the ball this year any more than any other year. He’s hitting too many ground balls and he’s striking out too much and not walking enough. 

2. If Calhoun gets down a couple bunt singles, they’ll stop shifting him.

No they won’t. And even if the 3B stays a little closer to the bag, the other 3 IFs will still be on the right side taking away all those pulled balls. There will just be a bigger hole up the middle. 

3. Bunting is easy because we all learned to do it Little League. 

It’s not easy against a big league pitcher who is pitching you inside at 94 mph. The amount of practice it would take Calhoun to be good at bunting would just take away from the time he’s working on the actual problems.

 

 

[red321]

27 minutes ago, jordan said:

Let's say Kole comes up to the plate in a situation when a base runner is needed, like in the 9th and down 1 run.  With the funk he's in, I would hope that bunting is an option if they give him the whole left side of the infield. 

hopefully he's pulled for a pinch hitter

 

 

[Lou]

In response to a couple of points @Jeff Fletcher made:

2. At least he'll get a couple of hits

3. Whatever he's been working on to help his actual problems obviously isn't helping, so he might as well try something else. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Lou

[Dtwncbad]

But Jeff he needs to find ways to get hits right now.  All the rest is noise.  He looks completely incapable of getting a hit yanking ground balls to the right side.

Bunt to the open grass.  My only expectation as a result is a baesrunner instead of an automatic out.

[Griffey's Corner]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

There are a few false premises going on here...

1. The shift is the reason Calhoun is struggling.

No. They have been shifting him basically ever since he got to the big leagues. He’s hit well in the past despite the shift. He’s actually not pulling the ball this year any more than any other year. He’s hitting too many ground balls and he’s striking out too much and not walking enough. 

2. If Calhoun gets down a couple bunt singles, they’ll stop shifting him.

No they won’t. And even if the 3B stays a little closer to the bag, the other 3 IFs will still be on the right side taking away all those pulled balls. There will just be a bigger hole up the middle. 

3. Bunting is easy because we all learned to do it Little League. 

It’s not easy against a big league pitcher who is pitching you inside at 94 mph. The amount of practice it would take Calhoun to be good at bunting would just take away from the time he’s working on the actual problems.

 

 

1. The shift is a big part of why he is struggling. Mentally & Physically. It's not the only reason....1 HR on the year. We all have eyes we have seen plenty of hits that normally would be hits but are not because of the shift..... It does not take very many of those to cause a problem and a huge deflation in a batting average.

 

2. Good and when there is a hole up the middle he hits the ball right back where it came from. The whole point of this is quit trying to hit it into the teeth of the defense and hit it where they aint.

 

3. If a MLB player has the abilties and eye hand coordination to take that same 94 mph and hit it 400 feet on a line than yes bunting is much much easier..... If Calhoun does not have the pre-requisite skill to do it than as a ML player he should learn..... at some point in a game we may need a bunt from the #8 hole to win the game..... And lastly if Calhoun's time demands are so great that he cannot fit it into his busy schedule than I do not know what to say.... LOL. There is people in this country who work 16 hours a day every day for a lot less money.

[Lou]

32 minutes ago, jordan said:

Let's say Kole comes up to the plate in a situation when a base runner is needed, like in the 9th and down 1 run.  With the funk he's in, I would hope that bunting is an option if they give him the whole left side of the infield. 

Let's say he doesn't.

Please. 

[mtangelsfan]

I think the bottom line is that the team doesn't want him to just get on base more.  They want him to fix the problem.  Bunting isn't going to do that.

Other than that, they would probably just rather have someone else hitting.

By the way, I feel that this thread is great.  Six pages on whether a hitter should bunt more.

[mulwin444]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

There are a few false premises going on here...

1. The shift is the reason Calhoun is struggling.

No. They have been shifting him basically ever since he got to the big leagues. He’s hit well in the past despite the shift. He’s actually not pulling the ball this year any more than any other year. He’s hitting too many ground balls and he’s striking out too much and not walking enough. 

2. If Calhoun gets down a couple bunt singles, they’ll stop shifting him.

No they won’t. And even if the 3B stays a little closer to the bag, the other 3 IFs will still be on the right side taking away all those pulled balls. There will just be a bigger hole up the middle. 

3. Bunting is easy because we all learned to do it Little League. 

It’s not easy against a big league pitcher who is pitching you inside at 94 mph. The amount of practice it would take Calhoun to be good at bunting would just take away from the time he’s working on the actual problems.

 

 

What would this place be without a false premise or two...or three?

[Griffey's Corner]

I expect Calhoun to make the time to fix his swing and in the meantime until  he can do that drop a few singles down so he is not hurting the ball club. Is that too much to ask?

[Lou]

54 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

if you read the article it very clearly states that Eppler & Scioscia & the Angels front office think Pujols is doing a great job because he knocked in 100 runs and they are ignoring anything the analytics might say.

Of course they say that. Do you really expect them to say he's been crappy? The worst you'll ever here them say about a player is: " He's struggling a bit right now, but he's still hitting the ball hard. He just needs some of those to start falling in"

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think the bottom line is that the team doesn't want him to just get on base more.  They want him to fix the problem.  Bunting isn't going to do that.

Other than that, they would probably just rather have someone else hitting.

By the way, I feel that this thread is great.  Six pages on whether a hitter should bunt more.

Why can't he do both? Here's a thought - extra batting practice. 

[Griffey's Corner]

We should bump this thread the next time we lose a close 1 run game and we look back at a Calhoun strikeout with that big swing of his at a pivotal point in the game. And than we will see how many of you are trying to diminish the importance of this.... or that a pro ballplayer does not know how to bunt.

 

Sarcasm on.... Let's just keep saying Kole is too busy or that there is other priorities in Kole's life or that it's not a big deal. Or we do not want to hurt Kole's feelings or bruise Kole's ego. That our expensive RF cannot execute one of the most basic parts of the game. Usually the good bunters are the crappiest hitters in the game.... just ask Maldonado....if they can do it.... So can Kole.

[Griffey's Corner]

Just now, Lou said:

Why can't he do both? Here's a thought - extra batting practice. 

Excellent point Lou.

[Griffey's Corner]

Did Fletcher leave the discussion?

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Why can't he do both? Here's a thought - extra batting practice. 

It's not working.  For one I would rather have someone out there who can hit the ball out of the infield.  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Griffey's Corner said:

We should bump this thread the next time we lose a close 1 run game and we look back at a Calhoun strikeout with that big swing of his at a pivotal point in the game. And than we will see how many of you are trying to diminish the importance of this.... or that a pro ballplayer does not know how to bunt.

Only if you blame every player for every at-bat during a game that failed during a pivotal point in a game in a one-run loss.

Plus, bumping threads is dumb. 

[Lou]

Just now, Lou said:

Plus, bumping threads is dumb. 

I agree 

[Griffey's Corner]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

Let's say he doesn't.

Please. 

odds are there probably has already been 1 or 2 games this year the Angels lost because Kole crapped the bed. Without even moving the runner over, etc.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, Lou said:

Only if you blame every player for every at-bat during a game that failed during a pivotal point in a game in a one-run loss.

Plus, bumping threads is dumb. 

I agree.

[Taylor]

Woah, this 4-hour thread is already at 7 pages.