Calhoun and Bunting

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Griffey's Corner said:

LOL. Of course they will when you do not have a position player standing over there. How would they not????? he would hit .470 UNTIL they put back the 3B & SS. It would take about 5-6 at bats.... and than he could go swing away and hit .270 with no shift..... That is a lot better than your proposal of let Kole magically break out of his 3 year slump or keep hitting .167....

I honestly don’t even know how to come back at this.  Let me get this straight.  You think Calhoun is some bunts and removed shift away from being a .270 hitter ?

we’ll just disagree at this point. 

[zenmaster]

16 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

What context. That MLB players used to hit over .400 all the time. And players nowadays all swing for the fences. When is the last time you saw a batter choke up on the bat? Pitchers throw harder... big whoop. All that means is the ball comes off the bat harder. Pitchers also used to doctor the baseballs and throw spitters. They would throw at your head with no helmets! Hitters were still hitting over .400 than.

28 players have ever hit over .400 and hasn't happened since 1941 and many happened in the 1800s. Not exactly hitting over .400 all the time.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_with_a_.400_batting_average_in_a_season.html

I did some back of the napkin math and it shows me that players (since baseball started keeping records) hit .400 or greater ~0.0002% of the time. 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

He thinks it’s “easy”

If it were so easy as some think players would be bunting a lot more than they do.

Nothing in baseball is easy but some guys that played Little League think it is.

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

My position is that I’ll take my chances with him possibly getting an XBH in almost all situations.  

I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but a double results in a run at dramatically higher rate then a single.  If a runner is on base a well hit ball is more efficient for moving runners around the diamond.  Almost always, this is the correct play.  

There are a few situational instances where I would call for a bunt.  But not many. 

When Kole starts actually making good contact I’ll worry about the shift. 

Do you think that he will get more or less XBH if there is a shift on, then?

[Griffey's Corner]

A lot of you guys just do not get it. Are you watching the games? There has been quite a few times already this year when he has had a nice shot into RF only to have the 2B standing in RF to take the hit away. You than magnify when he strikes out and look at his BA and than say he is not hitting well. He is hitting the same. The problem is teams have adjusted. If he does not make some adjustments of his own than we have a huge problem. 

 

Even with the 2B playing shallow RF it allows the RF to play even deeper and take even more hits away from Kole especially the extra base hits.

[Angels#1Fan]

Just now, krAbs said:

Do you think that he will get more or less XBH if there is a shift on, then?

The shift generally works best against ground balls and has little effect (imo) on xbh!

[Griffey's Corner]

Actually bunting is very easy to do. definitely a lot easier than doing a full swing.

 

Players do not hit .400 anymore because they all have huge swings and swing for the fences. If trout choked up and only tried to hit it where they are not and just try for BA I bet he could hit .400. Altuve could. Probably some others. 

No one wants to be just a singles hitter anymore.

[mulwin444]

Considering the amount of analytics available to the Angels front office, I'm guessing if bunting was a desired strategy for Kole to break his slump he'd be doing it.  Since he isn't, I'm assuming it was determined this would not be a good strategy.  Hmmm, I'll go with the paid experts on this one.  

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Do you think that he will get more or less XBH if there is a shift on, then?

I think that the way he’s swinging right now, it doesn’t matter that much.  

If I was Kole I would be going up to the plate every single time with the singular mission of swinging to go the other way.  Right now as far as I can tell.  He’s not trying to do that. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

The shift generally works best against ground balls and has little effect (imo) on xbh!

Also this. 

[Angels#1Fan]

17 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

What context. That MLB players used to hit over .400 all the time.

On what planet did MLB players "hit .400 all the time"?

[Griffey's Corner]

8 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I honestly don’t even know how to come back at this.  Let me get this straight.  You think Calhoun is some bunts and removed shift away from being a .270 hitter ?

we’ll just disagree at this point. 

Yes I do. Kole's lifetime BA is .257..... and that counts this dreadful year. With no shift at all I would guarantee you that to make my argument a sound one all he needs.... again all he needs..... is 1 extra single a month. 1 hit a month. I see the shift take away hits from him every other game.

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think that the way he’s swinging right now, it doesn’t matter that much.  

If I was Kole I would be going up to the plate every single time with the singular mission of swinging to go the other way. 

I agree that this is the ideal solution.

What my point is is that while it wouldn't FIX the problem, removing the shift would HELP the problem. Calhoun would still be really bad, but maybe he could bat his weight if there wasn't a shift (he is actually a lot closer to .200 than I had previously implied - I looked it up because I was curious). Do you really think that its not worth being better if you can't be 100%? THAT is the point of my question earlier - are more hits better or worse.

[Angels#1Fan]

8 minutes ago, Griffey's Corner said:

A lot of you guys just do not get it.

I'd say it's a lot more likely that someone that thinks players used to hit .400 all the time doesn't get it..just saying.

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, krAbs said:

I agree that this is the ideal solution.

What my point is is that while it wouldn't FIX the problem, removing the shift would HELP the problem. Calhoun would still be really bad, but maybe he could bat his weight if there wasn't a shift (he is actually a lot closer to .200 than I had previously implied - I looked it up because I was curious). Do you really think that its not worth being better if you can't be 100%? THAT is the point of my question earlier - are more hits better or worse.

Of course I do, better is better.  But I don’t think they’ll ever take the shift off him.  It’ll just be a cat and mouse game that Kole is going to lose.  The only realistic solution for Kole is to actually start hitting like a major league player again.  If he can’t he can’t.  There’s no gimmick fix for this. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Griffey's Corner]

 

4 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

On what planet did MLB players "hit .400 all the time"?

back when players played small ball. Roger Hornsby 6 years in a row hit .370 or better. In small ball I bet that at least 20 times over 40 years it was done.... probably more. So it happened quite a lot.

 

if I said all the time.... than you were taking me to literal. What I should have said was it happened a lot.

[Angels#1Fan]

Just now, Griffey's Corner said:

So it happened quite a lot.

No it didn't.

[Griffey's Corner]

8 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Considering the amount of analytics available to the Angels front office, I'm guessing if bunting was a desired strategy for Kole to break his slump he'd be doing it.  Since he isn't, I'm assuming it was determined this would not be a good strategy.  Hmmm, I'll go with the paid experts on this one.  

really are these the same analytics people that say that Pujols is doing a great job because he had over 100 RBI's......

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, Griffey's Corner said:

Roger Hornsby 6 years in a row hit .370 or better.

I believe Hornsby hit .400 three times in 24 seasons..not a lot.

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Griffey's Corner said:

really are these the same analytics people that say that Pujols is doing a great job because he had over 100 RBI's......

What analytics anywhere say Pujols is doing a great job ?

You’re just making shit up bud. 

[Griffey's Corner]

Bottom line guys. If Kole would let the ball travel farther.... use the whole field. Bunts, grounders, whatever. Keep the defenses honest and get rid of the shift he would be a much better hitter and the Angels would be a much better team. Which is what we all care about.

 

If your understanding of baseball does not comprehend this than we will just have to agree to disagree. We are all on the same team.

[krAbs]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Of course I do, better is better.  But I don’t think they’ll ever take the shift off him.  It’ll just be a cat and mouse game that Kole is going to lose. 

Yea of course.  The shift is effective.  But it’s effective against most players.  

This is a dynamic thing.  As soon as they see Kole putting bunts down, they’ll adjust (and it won’t take long)  and he still won’t hit.  

So...I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm honestly a bit confused on your position at this point. What adjustment were you talking about, if not the shift? Cuz it seems to me, if they don't shift, he can keep bunting to no one, and if they do, then at least he doesn't have to hit against the shift (though, he still needs to like...hit...so he'll still be bad - just not AS bad). Are you saying there is a way to shift but still defend against a bunt? I guess you could do that with an outfield only shift, but that seems less effective than a full shift, which would still be better than what we have now...

[krAbs]

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Of course I do, better is better.  But I don’t think they’ll ever take the shift off him.  It’ll just be a cat and mouse game that Kole is going to lose.  The only realistic solution for Kole is to actually start hitting like a major league player again.  If he can’t he can’t.  There’s no gimmick fix for this. 

Sorry - didn't see the edit.

I think you're right. the only SOLUTION is for him to start hitting like a major leager again. But, I do think there are ways for it to be better than what it is.

[Griffey's Corner]

15 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Considering the amount of analytics available to the Angels front office, I'm guessing if bunting was a desired strategy for Kole to break his slump he'd be doing it.  Since he isn't, I'm assuming it was determined this would not be a good strategy.  Hmmm, I'll go with the paid experts on this one.  

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

What analytics anywhere say Pujols is doing a great job ?

You’re just making shit up bud. 

You were specifically saying the ANGELS FRONT OFFICE.....

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-report-20170626-story.html

 

have fun reading and feeling the burn.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, krAbs said:

So...I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm honestly a bit confused on your position at this point. What adjustment were you talking about, if not the shift? Cuz it seems to me, if they don't shift, he can keep bunting to no one, and if they do, then at least he doesn't have to hit against the shift (though, he still needs to like...hit...so he'll still be bad - just not AS bad). Are you saying there is a way to shift but still defend against a bunt? I guess you could do that with an outfield only shift, but that seems less effective than a full shift, which would still be better than what we have now...

I don’t think you’re being a dick. But teams can do a lot to limit the bunt.  The pitcher can make it difficult.  They can see him trying to bunt and back off the shift.  Then he’s back to swinging.  Which doesn’t seem ideal for success. This guy isn’t going to step into the box and lay down a perfect bunt on his first attempt.  The whole thing just seems fu*ked to me.