RIP Chief Wahoo

[fan_since79]

23 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

My only problem with today's society is the outrage is literally insatiable.

Nobody will feel better.  They will now just pick something else to be ticked off about.

At some point I just stop caring about the feelings of people who are insatiable.

Some people (many, it seems lately) just go through life pissed off at somebody or some institution all the time. Pathetic.

 

[NorCal Halo]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

But whatever.  It's after country.  If people want to waste their time and energy on finding ways to be upset about embroidery on a hat, then that's up to them

We certainly can agree to disagree.  However, the history here is pretty clear.  Back in 300 B.C., Aristotle said that those not using reason can only become noble savages--the idea that is still behind most non-Indians' thoughts of Indians: read here.  It has everything to do with racism and iconography.  Tobacco and baseball were part and parcel to this branding as has been Hollywood.  It is akin to the Sambo image of African Americans.  Do you think Sambo's restaurant took down its images because people had nothing better to do than complain?

[Dtwncbad]

How about that cartoon is a simply shallow, and at worst, is ignorant because it is incomplete in capturing the comprehensive and complex real world culture of the Indians.

But it can't.  It's a cartoon.  It is a cartoon telling a story for children. . .and anyone notice one MAJOR element of the cartoon is the young boy instantly falling for the Indian girl after a little kiss?

If it was racist, wouldn't they make the young boy disgusted by her?

We gotta stop the knee jerk "racist" analysis of everything little thing related to race.

Just wondering. . .is every TV show TV commercial nowadays racist with their depiction of basically every white father in a family being a total idiot?

 

[Mark68]

Some people have nothing better to do than complain about people who complain about something that they feel is wrong.

[Make Angels Great Again]

34 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The caricature should go because it’s insulting and belittling.  

 

The actual people depicted by the logo by and large disagree, which you've acknowledged. So you're just being offended for them.

 

Something always has to be insulting. It's a damn cartoon character.

[Hubs]

Sometimes it's not about being offended, it's about being on the right side of an issue.

Caricatures or logos or whatever that use race in any context should be eliminated. I'm indifferent about team names, but Redskins is different than Indians or Braves. Braves shouldn't be changed, as Cowboys or Rangers wouldn't be either.

And whoever posted the cartoon videos does know that Peter Pan came out in 1953, right? They obviously had different thoughts on race in the 1950's prior to the civil rights movement.

And for what it is worth, if there was a team which was a racist slur for any other race besides Native Americans, I doubt it would still exist.

Do you think the San Francisco Chinamen or the San Diego Wetbacks or even the New York Dago's would exist?

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

We certainly can agree to disagree.  However, the history here is pretty clear.  Back in 300 B.C., Aristotle said that those not using reason can only become noble savages--the idea that is still behind most non-Indians' thoughts of Indians: read here.  It has everything to do with racism and iconography.  Tobacco and baseball were part and parcel to this branding as has been Hollywood.  It is akin to the Sambo image of African Americans.  Do you think Sambo's restaurant took down its images because people had nothing better to do than complain?

It's healthy conversation.  To be clear, I have no objection to changing something to avoid unnecessarily offending people.

I am simply saying many, most, or maybe even 99% of the people nowadays mad about this stuff ate literally addicted to being offended so it won't actually matter if you change it

They will just be mad at something else. 

[Adam]

Good. 

 

It wasn't racist enough for me

[Lou]

How exactly is it racist? 

 

[Mark68]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

Good. 

 

It wasn't Asian enough for me

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It's healthy conversation.  To be clear, I have no objection to changing something to avoid unnecessarily offending people.

I am simply saying many, most, or maybe even 99% of the people nowadays mad about this stuff ate literally addicted to being offended so it won't actually matter if you change it

They will just be mad at something else. 

 

But doesn't that cheapen that actual "offensiveness" of the act/item in question? If people are looking to be offended, they're going to find seriously trivial crap.

Like this stuff we're discussing here.

[Hubs]

I'm obviously on the liberal side of this issue, but sometimes I will say they do go too far. Like for instance saying I can't celebrate Cinco de Mayo or St. Patty's day since I am neither Mexican nor Irish as they I would then be culturally appropriating.

[fan_since79]

[NorCal Halo]

Examples of just a cartoon:

If you've joked about or laughed at the idea that some have longer male reproductive organs based upon their race, then you've been influenced by racist iconography.

The point is this isn't about being offended.  It is about iconography (the mapping of images), which is how racial stereotypes form and are maintained.  Race is an artificial social construct that imparts a myriad of meanings--positive and negative.  It's pretty clear that the Chief Wahoo image created false images at best and negative racial stereotypes at worst.  It's historically relevant because many, including all the posters here, have imparted significance to it, whether that be about racism, political correctness, or parental guidance.

[Dtwncbad]

16 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Some people (many, it seems lately) just go through life pissed off at somebody or some institution all the time. Pathetic.

 

Its actually, again in my opinion, something a little bit different than being pissed off.

It's about a very lazy way to self worth.  In the old days, my parents told me there was dignity in having control.of your own emotions.  Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

Today it is the exact opposite.  Finding a way to be "hurt" or offended by others is a badge of being evolved and progressive and intellectual.  It's a way to show you are smart enough to understand how this (whatever it is) could be offensive so then people feel like they must be offended.

It is a pendulum in our culture.  We literally have people yelling at me that I am supposed to be offended.

How about I choose not to be?

Yet that is somehow unacceptable and makes me ignorant or ugly or whatever.

Try to live a truly colorblind life and you will be called a racist at every turn for not seeing racism in everything.

I hope the pendulum centers.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Is that Walton Goggins? 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

None of this matters -- ask the white chick in the burbs if she thinks it's "mean".... that's the demographic behind the "outrage".

Unless you meant carrie fisher, but my mind instantly went there.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

The agnostics will demand the Angels change their name.  Separation of church and state they will say, you know, because the Angels play in a state.

It doesn't bother me to use the Angel name or logo.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Well Bernie's proven himself to be a fraud, so that wouldn't be surprising.

Good thing you dropped that fraud and moved on.

[Kevin]

56 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Some people (many, it seems lately) just go through life pissed off at somebody or some institution all the time. Pathetic.

 

I agree but I think we need to point out that there are "snowflakes" for almost every controversial issue that comes up on every side. Look how many people got pissed and said they would boycott the NFL because people took a knee during the national anthem. Was it truly that big of a deal? Not really but the butt hurt was strong because they were easily offended.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

This is good news. Now all the white people will no longer be offended by it.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

The actual people depicted by the logo by and large disagree, which you've acknowledged. So you're just being offended for them.

 

Something always has to be insulting. It's a damn cartoon character.

I’m not offended at all.  I’m just capable of processing slightly abstract concepts.   Such as, why something that doesn’t bother me might still be in poor taste or wrong.  The reason it looks the way it does is because it’s mocking natives.  Just the same as the sambo cartoons did.  Which I referenced.  

Would the sambo cartoon be an appropriate  logo for a member club of a massive enterprise like MLB ?  Or an advertisement for Coke or Pepsi ? It looks bad because it’s obvious.  That’s why it’s going away. 

Not sure what’s so troubling about a the demise of a dumb looking logo that is racist from 70 years ago. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[mulwin444]

Figured I'd see the usual idiotic "snowflakes" and "safe space" comments in relation to this topic...all it needs is "damn millennials", "triggered" and "SJWs!" to make it complete 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

How exactly is it racist? 

 

It didn't include African Americans. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not offended at all.  I’m just capable of processing slightly abstract concepts.   Such as, why something that doesn’t bother me might still be in poor taste or wrong.  The reason it looks the way it does is because it’s mocking natives.  Just the same as the sambo cartoons did.  Which I referenced.  

Would the sambo cartoon be an appropriate  logo for a member club of a massive enterprise like MLB ?  Or an advertisement for Coke or Pepsi ? It looks bad because it’s obvious.  That’s why it’s going away. 

Not sure what’s so troubling about a the demise of a dumb looking logo that is racist from 70 years ago. 

Remember the Sambo Restaurants? I think they vanished in the 70s.