The War on Drugs

[saangels]

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/may/10/ron-paul-states-rejecting-failed-war-on-drugs/

 

I have gained respect, over the years, for certain conservative philosophies.  What I cannot grasp, for the life of me, however, is how some conservatives can carry on and on and on about less government intervention and less invasion of privacy, and then turn around and be vehemently against legalizing drugs.  From an ethical perspective, it is a harmless crime.  The argument has always been, “well, after the drug user becomes addicted, he will then start to steal and use other illegal means to get his fix.”  Two points: (1) many drug addicts already use these means to obtain drugs.  These addicts obviously already don’t give a damn about the law, so whether the drugs themselves are legal or not—it’s not going to make a difference in regards to how these people resolve to obtain them. (2) Many drug addicts don’t use these means to obtain drugs, and never will.  I know plenty of addicts who sell cans, or beg for their fix, and have done so for years. I do not hand money out to homeless people for this very reason.  But I nevertheless do find it obscene how the American public can justify stamping felony charges on illicit drug users' foreheads, as if they’d robbed a bank or raped a woman, simply for consuming a mind altering substance.  The illicit drugs these street users take are similar—or in many cases virtually identical—to legal prescription substances on the market, e.g., oxycodon, dextroamphetamine,etc. 

 

In some cases the illicit drug user consumes a drug for the same reason that his more financially solvent counterpart does—i.e., they have pain, and they want it to go away.  In other cases, the illicit drug user abuses a drug that he doesn't need, for the same reason that his more financially solvent counterpart does—i.e., they are addicted to the drug.  The only real difference is that some of these addicts have insurance, and some don’t.  The ones that don’t are felons.  The ones that do are considered law abiding citizens (albeit perhaps unethical, law abiding citizens).                                                                                          

Economically speaking, $3 trillion dollars (the amount the government has wasted on the war on drugs) is roughly 1/5^th of the entire national debt.  Every politician seems to be scratching their head, asking “what can we possibly cut next to trim the deficit?”  Time and time again they resort to cutting workers’ salaries piecemeal in an effort to trim the fat.  Why not exert a little common sense for a change, and make a real, substantial reduction to the deficit, by ending this preposterous war on drugs?               

[mtangelsfan]

I agree, the "war on drugs" is stupid, wasteful and it infringes into areas of folks' lives that should be left alone.

 

I would add, however, that the current adminitration has been just as forceful, if not more, in regards to this war.

[saangels]

I agree, the "war on drugs" is stupid, wasteful and it infringes into areas of folks' lives that should be left alone.

 

I would add, however, that the current adminitration has been just as forceful, if not more, in regards to this war.

You are correct in that assertion, mtangelsfan.  The Obama administration has failed abysmally in this regard.  But why is that?  Could it have anything to do with the exorbitant amount of money that pharmaceutical companies pay through the nose to politicians (both conservative and liberal) to keep their products in stock?  Or is because no politician wants the unemployment rate to skyrocket on his watch?  Surely the end to the war on drugs would result in a superfluous number of probation officers, prison guards, police officers, judges, etc.   

 

The only reason I brought up conservative philosophy is because there seems to be an inherent contradiction in the way many of these people view the world.  The progressives are all for state control.  So it doesn't surprise me that they are against the legalization of drugs.     

[St1ck]

I agree, the "war on drugs" is stupid, wasteful and it infringes into areas of folks' lives that should be left alone.

 

I would add, however, that the current adminitration has been just as forceful, if not more, in regards to this war.

 

 

 

I wonder who will be the guy that finally puts an end to this nonsense. 

[mtangelsfan]

The reason is money of course, whose and how much I couldn't tell you.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I can't envision the war on drugs ever ending in our lifetimes because I can't see all drugs being made legal.  I think a step in the right direction would be legalizing marijuana and getting rid of the costs associated with prosecuting and incarcerating individuals charged with posession, selling, etc.  That said I think there's too much money going towards the jobs associated with that and people will cry "think of the children" during discussions to rile up the anti crowd.  I realize in some states it's legal and we'll see more legalize it but I'm talking on a federal level.  I remember reading some of the guys who had a hand in the war on drugs back in the 80's saying years later it's a massive failure and a waste of money but I'm not surprised they keep pouring money down the drain to fight another war that will never be won.    

[saangels]

No, you're absolutely correct, catwhoshatinthehat.  The war on drugs will not end in our lifetime.  The economy will probably collapse, and we might have to suffer through a second great depression--but that won't stop police from arresting harmless drug users.

[nate]

I agree, the "war on drugs" is stupid, wasteful and it infringes into areas of folks' lives that should be left alone.

 

I would add, however, that the current adminitration has been just as forceful, if not more, in regards to this war.

 

The most frustrating part to me is all of the violence it has brought to and across the border.  Soon the entire south west could be under siege.  One day the politicians will wake up and realize what they are doing isn't working.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Legalization would also accomplish something else: Cutting off a major source of revenue for gangs, money that they use to buy firearms and other weapons to both intimidate and take out rivals. The illegality of drugs fuels a lot of the street violence that goes on in this country, as well as requiring that a lot of money be spent on incarceration at the local, state and federal levels.

[arch stanton]

They will have to find a new way to fill the privately owned prisons that help feed the Republican machine before they can move on.

[Lhalo]

Think of all the tax revenue that is being lost in marijuana alone. Sure many people would grow their own if it was legal, but the average pot smoker will not have the time or space to grow a decent amount and will need to buy it from a business. California wastes money on fighting a boogey man instead of profiting from it.

 

Besides, alcohol is a much more destructive drug than marijuana will ever be and it's perfectly legal for those over 21. 

[Glen]

Think of all the tax revenue that is being lost in marijuana alone. Sure many people would grow their own if it was legal, but the average pot smoker will not have the time or space to grow a decent amount and will need to buy it from a business. California wastes money on fighting a boogey man instead of profiting from it.

 

Besides, alcohol is a much more destructive drug than marijuana will ever be and it's perfectly legal for those over 21. 

 

 

Marijuana seems to forever have the "hippie" stigma attached to it, as in it's a drug for filthy hippies and losers in general.  While there may be some truth to that, there are weed smokers in just about every facet of life.  Until that stigma is removed, marijuana won't be legalized.

[Glen]

I agree, the "war on drugs" is stupid, wasteful and it infringes into areas of folks' lives that should be left alone.

 

I would add, however, that the current adminitration has been just as forceful, if not more, in regards to this war.

 

 

This, in spades (no pun intended, really).  You'd think a crackhead like Obama would be soft on the druggies.

[Kevin]

Are people here in favor of the legalization of all drugs or a select few? I think we're in agreement that the "war" is a sham. However do you believe that some drugs should remain illegal or should they all be legalized?

[RallyMo]

Are people here in favor of the legalization of all drugs or a select few? I think we're in agreement that the "war" is a sham. However do you believe that some drugs should remain illegal or should they all be legalized?

 

I honestly don't think everything should be legalized, but that's just me.

[mtangelsfan]

Yeah, not everything but we need to handle the criminality of it much, much differently.

Our prisons our overwhelmed and actual violent criminals are released early just so we can fit more druggies in jail.

[saangels]

Are people here in favor of the legalization of all drugs or a select few? I think we're in agreement that the "war" is a sham. However do you believe that some drugs should remain illegal or should they all be legalized?

I don't think PCP, meth, or bath salts should be made legal.  But I don't really have a problem with heroin or cocaine any more than I already have a problem with cigarettes and alcohol.  The former is laced with rat poison and kills over 400,000 Americans every year; the latter is the only drug that a person can actually die from withdrawals.  You can't even die from heroin withdrawals.  What are we basing our judgments on?  I don't think PCP, meth or bath salts should be legalized because I don't think they can be used responsibly.  I'm tempted to throw LSD and mushrooms into that category--but if Native Americans can consume peyote buttons, which are much stronger and longer lasting than LSD tabs and shroom caps, I don't think its fair to discriminate.  It's a difficult topic to discuss because there are so many different angles to look at it from.  I understand why some people are against drug legalization.  I, myself, am not so much pro-legalization as I am anti-totalitarian regime.  The United States population makes up 5% of the world's population--yet we incarcerate 25% of the people across the globe.  That's ridiculous.   

[Blarg]

Right in that sentence is what happens when you get older. Youth calls for no limitations but as you get older, find friends falling away to addictions and attend funerals you either are pushed into more conservative thought or remain steadfast believing that autonomy is all important.

 

Hard for me to accept legalization of drugs when I have had to stand over a fresh grave and no, by legalizing the drug that cost this person their life it would not have made a difference other than moved the year mark back a decade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/may/10/ron-paul-states-rejecting-failed-war-on-drugs/

 

I have gained respect, over the years, for certain conservative philosophies.             

[saangels]

Eric, I'm sorry to hear that you have lost a loved one to addiction.  I can't sit here and pretend like I know how that feels, because I don't.  But, with all due respect, for my own personal edification, could you please explain to me how you can be against something that you don't think would make a difference either way?  I could see how you might feel indifferent on the issue.  But what's to be against, unless you think that things might get worse? 

[Blarg]

Because it is a numbers game. By legalizing deadly addictive drugs you exponentialy add to the amount of people who end up ruining their lives.

[Lifetime]

Yeah, not everything but we need to handle the criminality of it much, much differently.

Our prisons our overwhelmed and actual violent criminals are released early just so we can fit more druggies in jail.

I'd be interested to see some data that supports that MT. I know prisoners are being released early due to over crowding sometimes but I don't think that is to make way for drug users.

How do you suggest we handle the criminality of "druggies" assuming we legalize some drugs and not others?

What drugs should be legalized and what drugs should not?

[saangels]

Because it is a numbers game. By legalizing deadly addictive drugs you exponentialy add to the amount of people who end up ruining their lives.

I think a jail sentence is a lot more dangerous than a line of cocaine.  But I respect your opinion.   

[saangels]

I'd be interested to see some data that supports that MT. I know prisoners are being released early due to over crowding sometimes but I don't think that is to make way for drug users.

How do you suggest we handle the criminality of "druggies" assuming we legalize some drugs and not others?

What drugs should be legalized and what drugs should not?

Why do you think they're overcrowded in the first place? 

[Lifetime]

I doubt it is because of drug users but perhaps you have data.

[mtangelsfan]

http://open.salon.com/blog/stephannie/2010/05/16/how_many_people_are_incarcerated_for_drug_related_offenses

 

 

around 20% of inmates are in jail for drug related crimes. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223626/Prisons-America-breaking-point-million-citizens-bars.html

 

overcrowding approaching 45%

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1023129/Thousands-violent-prisoners-released-free-jail-space.html

 

there you go.