More Thoughts & Prayers

[Spirit]

If you guys want to talk guns, start another thread!  This thread is about something that is actually a serious danger to our society!  Something politicians continue to kick the can down the road on at best and ignore at worst!

 

 

[Blarg]

Banjos?

[Spirit]

[red321]

51 minutes ago, Blarg said:

He had access to any gun store in Jersey, just like everyone else. 

Look up Luciano's gun store in Jesey. It's a residence not a place zoned industrial or commercial. There is a playground across the street.

Caso's Gun-A-Rama looks like a pizza shop converted to sell Glocks and assault weapons.

Heritage Guild is where I would shop because they deal with classics but I could still pick up a Baretta with multiple clips.

The Florida comment was just a joke about... He's from fucking Florida! Plus that state has very weak gun laws, he could have made the drive and paid cash to a private seller through the local pennysaver ad, no ID check. 

 

Jersey also has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Oh well, was just an observation, as horrific as the attack was the fact he didn't have a gun, for whatever reason that might have been...could have been worse. I'll let Geoff get back to his heartfelt discussion on how to reduce terrorist truck attacks.

http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2017/10/03/nj-has-some-toughest-gun-laws-nation-and-among-lowest-gun-related-death-rates/728630001/

[Blarg]

The toughest gun laws mean squat if you don't have a criminal record. You sign paperwork, hand over an ID, in California you have to submit a current utility bill (wtff?) and then you wait 30 days to clear the background check and cooling off period. 

You pass a test you don't have to study for, show you can chamber a round (plastic fake round) drop a magazine and flip on a safety (none if is a Glock) buy the gun trigger lock for $15, put it on and leave the store with your box of ammo in a brown paper bag. 

No wonder he chooses a rental truck, that was only ID and a Home Depot credit card and the promise to fill the tank.

[Brandon]

Reminds me that I just did the TSA pre-boarding shit with Homeland Security. Pay $85, take some fingerprints at an office that includes an interview where they simply ask you to verify what you put on the application, and as long as you have no terrorist felonies or history you are approved in a week.

Now I don’t have to take off my shoe bombs at the airport.

[Adam]

[nate]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The toughest gun laws mean squat if you don't have a criminal record. You sign paperwork, hand over an ID, in California you have to submit a current utility bill (wtff?) and then you wait 30 days to clear the background check and cooling off period. 

You pass a test you don't have to study for, show you can chamber a round (plastic fake round) drop a magazine and flip on a safety (none if is a Glock) buy the gun trigger lock for $15, put it on and leave the store with your box of ammo in a brown paper bag. 

No wonder he chooses a rental truck, that was only ID and a Home Depot credit card and the promise to fill the tank.

He only killed 8 people compared to the 60 the dude in Vegas did.  This guy would have killed many more with a gun.

Not to mention it is much harder to get a drivers license than it is to buy a gun.

Oh, yeah, and the fact that motor vehicles are a fucking necessity.

Edited November 1, 2017 by nate

[Thomas]

6 minutes ago, nate said:

He only killed 8 people compared to the 60 the dude in Vegas did.  This guy would have killed many more with a gun.

Ever play Carmageddon back in the 90s? One of these days the right circumstances is going to happen of lax security and target density and the death toll is going to be a an order of magnitude worse at least, since the goal seems to be upping the high score of brutality.

[nate]

Just now, Thomas said:

Ever play Carmageddon back in the 90s? One of these days the right circumstances is going to happen of lax security and target density and the death toll is going to be a an order of magnitude worse at least, since the goal seems to be upping the high score of brutality.

Amazingly we put up concrete barriers all over the place to try to prevent this.

Still have done nothing for gun control.

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, nate said:

Amazingly we put up concrete barriers all over the place to try to prevent this.

Still have done nothing for gun control.

You mean besides metal detectors showing up everywhere similarly to physical barriers I assume. Not that you can create physical barriers in all cases, such as an event like a marathon. I dread the inevitable headline from that eventuality.  Using these events to push for gun control always seems misguided. Mass indiscriminate killings are the least likely thing to be affected by gun control. If you don't care about the identity of your target, it's horrifically easy to inflict heavy causalities. It's the more discriminate use of firearms, which of course accounts for the overwhelming amount of homicide by firearms, which would seem the far more effective um...target.

[nate]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

You mean besides metal detectors showing up everywhere similarly to physical barriers I assume. Not that you can create physical barriers in all cases, such as an event like a marathon. I dread the inevitable headline from that eventuality.  Using these events to push for gun control always seems misguided. Mass indiscriminate killings are the least likely thing to be affected by gun control. If you don't care about the identity of your target, it's horrifically easy to inflict heavy causalities. It's the more discriminate use of firearms, which of course accounts for the overwhelming amount of homicide by firearms, which would seem the far more effective um...target.

Except in countries with strict gun control they occur with far lower frequencies, so actually it is the exact opposite of what you said.

The number of places with concrete barriers is probably 100x that of places with metal detectors if not more.

[Thomas]

Just now, nate said:

Except in countries with strict gun control they occur with far lower frequencies, so actually it is the exact opposite of what you said.

Are you conflating mass killings with mass indiscriminate killings?

[nate]

Just now, Thomas said:

Are you conflating mass killings with mass indiscriminate killings?

i fail to see the difference

also, he planned this for months so it is hardly indiscriminate.

[Thomas]

Just now, nate said:

i fail to see the difference

Clearly.

Just now, nate said:

also, he planned this for months so it is hardly indiscriminate.

Did he know any of the victims?

[nate]

Just now, Thomas said:

Clearly.

Did he know any of the victims?

Did the Vegas shooter?

[Thomas]

Just now, nate said:

Did the Vegas shooter?

I was talking about the Vegas shooter.

[nate]

This was not done at random and it was done with careful judgement, he also carefully chose this area as a place to attack.  So it was very much not indiscriminate.

 

in·dis·crim·i·nate

ˌindəˈskrimənət/

adjective

 

1. done at random or without careful judgment.

   "the indiscriminate killing of civilians"

   synonyms:

   nonselective, unselective, undiscriminating, uncritical, aimless, hit-or-miss, haphazard, random, arbitrary, unsystematic, undirected; More

   • (of a person) not using or exercising discrimination.

[nate]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

I was talking about the Vegas shooter.

The Vegas shooter was still a terrorist, just the domestic kind.  He carefully planned where and whom he was killing.

[Thomas]

Just now, nate said:

The Vegas shooter was still a terrorist, just the domestic kind.  He carefully planned where and whom he was killing.

Terrorist in all but of course trying to coerce change through violence, assuming he wasn't just really terrible at communication skills.

2 minutes ago, nate said:

in·dis·crim·i·nate

 

1. done at random or without careful judgment.

Killing random people, as opposed to a specific target, would seem to match exactly what I said. But thanks for the assist.  Always appreciate it. Again, I'm not saying anything earth shattering.
If person X wants to kill specifically person Y, guns are really good for that. Unmatched compared to any other technique.
If person X wants to kill a person but not anyone specifically, then the available methods to do so becomes quite a bit more flexible.

[nate]

It is not done at random if it is planned.

Indiscriminate is drunk guy mows over a family driving home from the bar.

[Blarg]

44 minutes ago, nate said:

He only killed 8 people compared to the 60 the dude in Vegas did.  This guy would have killed many more with a gun.

Not to mention it is much harder to get a drivers license than it is to buy a gun.

Oh, yeah, and the fact that motor vehicles are a fucking necessity.

He would have killed more if he drove through a crowd at an outdoor concert at night. Location, location, location.

My point is that it was easier to jihad in a rental truck than wait for his Constitution right to bear arms. Could have been an escape vehicle if he hadn't gone Asian and slammed into a school bus.

Meanwhile in Mogadishu they instituted a daytime trucking ban in the city limits. 

 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-41818929

[Blarg]

38 minutes ago, nate said:

Amazingly we put up concrete barriers all over the place to try to prevent this.

Still have done nothing for gun control.

#giveupyourshotgunnate

[nate]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

He would have killed more if he drove through a crowd at an outdoor concert at night. Location, location, location.

My point is that it was easier to jihad in a rental truck than wait for his Constitution right to bear arms. Could have been an escape vehicle if he hadn't gone Asian and slammed into a school bus.

Meanwhile in Mogadishu they instituted a daytime trucking ban in the city limits. 

 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-41818929

Doing this here would cripple our economy and destroy commerce.

Banning guns would literally do nothing other than save lives and put a few thousand people out of the job.

[Adam]

And create a precedent for eliminating individual rights.