Marlins Hope To Trade Stanton, Gordon, Prado

[totdprods]

17 minutes ago, red321 said:

If I'm a Marlin's fan, or a resident of the Miami area...I'm starting to wonder what the hell.

First Loaria with the continuous tear downs, fleeces the city and state for a new stadium and gets out of town with a dollar bills falling out of his pockets and now a new ownership group comes in...and immediately starts cutting payroll once again.

That and they'll probably retire Jeter's number

And that's why I think ultimately Jeter and Co. need to take a very middling approach. 
They have to rid themselves of as much of the Prado, Gordon, Ziegler, Tazawa, Chen, Volquez salary as possible and that's only happening if they package them to a positive-contract player like Stanton, Ozuna, or Yelich. 

Yelich (25) under contract for $43m through 2021 (and has a $15m option for 2022)
Ozuna (26) is controlled via arb. through 2019
Riddle (25) still has six seasons of control.
Realmuto (26) is controlled via arb. through 2020.
Bour (29) is controlled via arb. through 2020.

That's a really good, really affordable, really extendable core for Marlins new ownership to play with, and it would be a terrible waste for them to go into a full rebuild now and squander all of these years of cheap control of comparably aged players. They could flip them all for prospects, but you're putting that team into a position where they may not compete for 3-5 years, and why would they wait that long when they have so many good, cheap, ~25 year old players now?

Lumping as many of their poor contracts into a Stanton deal is their best route. It'll sting the fanbase at first but the core will remain. 
If the Angels want Stanton, they can get him if they are willing to take some of the other contracts and spike their payroll for a couple seasons. We're not far from having Pujols' contract, and possible Trout's, off the books.

It makes the most sense for them to follow something comparable to what the Angels have done the last couple seasons. Fill needs with short-term bargain commitments that are cheap to acquire and roll the dice that they get some good fortune and push for the WC, all while building up the farm. If the 'rebuild' isn't going quick enough, they can deal off a piece of that core gradually to restock the farm without giving the 'firesale' perception. 

Calhoun gives them a productive, legit major leaguer at a rate cheaper than any of their other current OFs. 
Shoemaker (or Skaggs or Ramirez) gives them a SP which they badly need after losing Chen, Volquez, and Fernandez (RIP)
You could maybe even pawn Valbuena off on them if the Angels really need to save salary in the deal. Miami can afford one year of $8m of Valbuena if it means they're savings tens of millions elsewhere. 

[jordan]

A lot is going to come down to WHERE he wants to play, with a full no-trade clause.  If he wants only SoCal, then Angels, Dodgers, and Padres get in a bidding war, entire west coast...then a few more teams.  But we don't know where he prefers to play.

[Blarg]

10 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

Sosh will still have Pujols bat right behind Trout and ahead of Stanton. 

Because that's what he did when Upton was aquired, right?

Don't look now but your stupid is showing.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

6 minutes ago, HaloCory22 said:

That leaves us with next to no money to spend on the biggest need. Pitching.

In case you haven't heard Eppler has said most pitching we come from in house. He plans on upgrading the offense with an emphasis on OBP. Maybe a pitcher near the bottom of the rotation to stick in AAA in case of injuries. Maybe a couple of long men for the bullpen but that's it. 2nd base and 3rd base and OF if Upton opts out. No top of the rotation pitchers...

[Mark68]

Here's what I'm thinking:

There is a way to take all three contracts off of the Marlins and give up nothing, or next to nothing. They want salary relief, and they know that with those players on those contracts, that's all they're getting. Maybe a middling minor leaguer or two.

[fan_since79]

Pull the fences in twenty feet at the stadium, then maybe Stanton might notice us.

 

 

[VariousCrap]

Never going to happen.  Just let it go.

[HaloCory22]

19 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

In case you haven't heard Eppler has said most pitching we come from in house. He plans on upgrading the offense with an emphasis on OBP. Maybe a pitcher near the bottom of the rotation to stick in AAA in case of injuries. Maybe a couple of long men for the bullpen but that's it. 2nd base and 3rd base and OF if Upton opts out. No top of the rotation pitchers...

If most of our pitching is coming from in house then we're in trouble. Big trouble.

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Pull the fences in twenty feet at the stadium, then maybe Stanton might notice us.

 

 

Because that line drive 425 homer he hit against us in Anaheim didn’t happen?

[nando714]

The marlins will start the phone call with  Thiass, Adell, Jones. Middleton, long and then Eppler hangs ups 

but you minimize the asking price of players with taking on lots and lots of money 

if your the Nats do u consider trading Harper who from what everyone is saying wants to leave via FA after 2018 for Stanton ? 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, HaloCory22 said:

If most of our pitching is coming from in house then we're in trouble. Big trouble.

That's the plan.

ANAHEIM — The Angels’ plan for improving in 2018 is just about as simple as it gets, so rooted in the basics of modern analytics that the words might as well have been uttered by Brad Pitt.

“Something I learned a long time ago: get that on-base percentage up,” General Manager Billy Eppler said. “Don’t make so many outs.”

One of the core changes in the game over the past 15 years has been a focus on on-base percentage instead of batting average, as espoused by A’s general manager Billy Beane and repeated on the silver screen by Pitt in the film adaptation of Moneyball.

“The metric that has the strongest correlation to run scoring is on-base percentage,” Eppler said Monday, the first day of the Angels’ offseason. “It’s been sliced and diced every single which way under the sun.”

The Angels’ .315 on-base percentage in 2017 ranked 11th in the American League. Not surprisingly, they had the same rank in runs scored.

“I want our team on-base percentage to be .330 or higher,” Eppler said.

They were particularly deficient at first base (.294) and designated hitter (.290), which are supposed to be two of a team’s most productive offensive positions. They also lagged at catcher (.263) and second base (.274), but those are more defensive positions, and the Angels got the defense they wanted for much of the season at both spots, at the expense of offense.

As for which particular holes Eppler plans to fill with higher on-base percentage players, he was predictably noncommittal.

“I’m going to look to improve anywhere possible,” he said.

You can rule out the Angels upgrading at center field or shortstop, patrolled by Mike Trout and Andrelton Simmons. They also seem to be content with Martin Maldonado behind the plate, believing that he can bring his offense up to match his defense with a year of adjustment to the heavy workload.

If Justin Upton chooses not to exercise his opt-out, that takes care of left field. It’s also likely, although less certain, that the Angels are satisfied with Kole Calhoun in right field.

And the designated hitter, Albert Pujols, is obviously not going anywhere. The Angels hope the improvement there can come simply from Pujols being healthier and in better shape.

So that leaves three spots: first, second and third base.

The Angels have Luis Valbuena to play first or third, and streaky C.J. Cron at first, but there is room to upgrade. At second, the Angels don’t really have an in-house option, with Kaleb Cowart still showing his offensive shortcomings in his brief trial in 2017.

Free agent infielders Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer and Zack Cozart could all be fits for the Angels, as could free agent outfielders J.D. Martinez and Jay Bruce, if the Angels need to replace Upton.

Don’t expect the Angels to use all of their available cash — perhaps $50 million to $75 million, before exceeding the luxury tax threshold — on free agents to fill those holes, though.

“It can’t all be solved through free agency, and I don’t think that’s a very productive way to go for the health of the organization,” Eppler said. “My goal is to use the free agent market to supplement.”

Whatever big-ticket players the Angels acquire — whether from trades or free agency — are likely to be position players. Eppler and Manager Mike Scioscia both expressed confidence on Monday that the answer to most of their pitching issues are currently in-house.

Garrett Richards, Andrew Heaney and Tyler Skaggs — arguably the Angels’ three most talented pitchers — combined to start 27 games in 2017. While all missed significant time during the season, they all finished it healthy.

“I don’t think it’s a wing and a prayer to think Garrett Richards is going to go out and start 25 games,” Scioscia said. “I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Andrew Heaney will start 20, even if he has setbacks. You hope they never do. You hope for 33 starts.

“You are talking about just those three guys, an extra 40 starts. I think you’re looking at a deeper pitching staff with the probability that you’ll get to a certain point in the game more often.”

Eppler also seems to have modest goals for a more competitive rotation. He said said if the Angels can get just 600 innings out of their top five starters, “it’s going to be a real positive outcome.” That’s only 120 innings per starter, a rather low threshold that they still haven’t been able to meet.

“I don’t look at it as blind optimism, like we’re closing our eyes and blowing out candles on a birthday cake to get better,” Eppler said. “It’s the players giving us that belief.”

In addition to Richards, Heaney and Skaggs, Eppler added Matt Shoemaker, JC Ramirez, Parker Bridwell, Nick Tropeano and prospect Jaime Barria to what he considers his eight-man starting depth chart. He said he also hopes to add a couple more, although it doesn’t sound like that would include a marquee free agent like Yu Darvish or Jake Arrieta.

“Do I need more starting pitching to emerge? Yes,” Eppler said. “Does that mean it has to be a major league bona fide starter that doesn’t have flexibility? No it doesn’t. It just has to be a starting pitcher that we feel could go into Triple-A or the major leagues.”

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

That's the plan.

Whatever big-ticket players the Angels acquire — whether from trades or free agency — are likely to be position players. Eppler and Manager Mike Scioscia both expressed confidence on Monday that the answer to most of their pitching issues are currently in-house.

That's why I'm thinking they could just open the wallet and go all in on offense. 
Gordon, Upton, Stanton, Prado, maybe a reliever. Maybe the Marlins still pay a chunk of salary too. 

Flip Calhoun, a more expensive arb eligible SP like Shoemaker or Ramirez, and maybe Valbuena plus a couple OF prospects back to get them to throw in salary. 

Angels do a huge favor for the Marlins, give them some useful prospects and useful, cheap MLBers. 
Angels check off all their needs except pitching - which doesn't seem to be an area they plan on spending on anyways. 

Stanton and Upton are you 'star' insurance if Trout walks in a couple seasons and when Bert's contract ends, be it by expiration or retirement. Still have some marketable 'stars' for Arte to tout.

[Glen]

Just imagine a 2-3-4-5 of Trout, Upton, Pujols, and Stanton.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Glen said:

Just imagine a 2-3-4-5 of Trout, Upton, Pujols, and Stanton.

Make it a 1-5 of Gordon, Trout, Upton, Stanton, Pujols. 

[fan_since79]

5 minutes ago, Glen said:

Just imagine a 2-3-4-5 of Trout, Upton, Pujols, and Stanton.

Haha.

I wonder if Scioscia will even be able to physically manipulate the pencil to move Albert down to the 5-spot. It will be a struggle at the very least.

Edited October 31, 2017 by fan_since79

[totdprods]

Just now, fan_since79 said:

Haha.

I wonder if Scioscia will even be able to physically manipulate the pencil to move Albert down to the 5-spot. It will be a struggle at the very least.

He said he'd move him down if he had a better option, and he did as soon as Upton arrived. 

In this fantasy scenario, both Upton and Stanton are certainly good enough to bump him down. 

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

First Upton needs to opt out. Second you need to convince Miami we have enough pieces to pull off this trade and do it quickly before Upton signs somewhere else, in case we can't trade for Stanton. I think this is risky and highly unlikely but I would be happy if the improbably became possible.

Usually the biggest fish move first so in that respect I think Giancarlo is more likely to move before Upton. Of course there is nothing stopping Upton from choosing to sign with another team first but more than likely the teams that are interested in Upton are more interested in Stanton first so I feel fairly comfortable in saying Giancarlo will move before Upton signs.

[Taylor]

The Angels aren't getting Stanton without giving up Adell and Jones.

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, ettin said:

Usually the biggest fish move first so in that respect I think Giancarlo is more likely to move before Upton. Of course there is nothing stopping Upton from choosing to sign with another team first but more than likely the teams that are interested in Upton are more interested in Stanton first so I feel fairly comfortable in saying Giancarlo will move before Upton signs.

I have no inside info but my guess is that you hear Upton has re-upped for an additional year as soon as the Series is over....does not ever get to the opt out.....it makes too much sense for both sides, which may be why it doesn't happen....

[HaloCory22]

25 minutes ago, Taylor said:

The Angels aren't getting Stanton without giving up Adell and Jones.

That's a no brainer. You gotta do it. Upton, Trout, Stanton in the OF for 5+ years makes those two easily expendable.

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, jordan111280 said:

A lot is going to come down to WHERE he wants to play, with a full no-trade clause.  If he wants only SoCal, then Angels, Dodgers, and Padres get in a bidding war, entire west coast...then a few more teams.  But we don't know where he prefers to play.

His tax liability will dictate his next destination. Once again the no trade clause has a stranglehold on that organizations options.

I can’t see Arte doing anything with Stanton with the possibility of having to guarantee Trout a very similar package in the near future. If Upton leaves their focus will shift to filling left field again. 

[Ohtaniland]

39 minutes ago, ettin said:

Usually the biggest fish move first so in that respect I think Giancarlo is more likely to move before Upton. Of course there is nothing stopping Upton from choosing to sign with another team first but more than likely the teams that are interested in Upton are more interested in Stanton first so I feel fairly comfortable in saying Giancarlo will move before Upton signs.

They both play completely different positions so a team looking for a left fielder will have no interest in Stanton. A team looking for a right fielder will have no interest in Upton.

[Taylor]

19 minutes ago, HaloCory22 said:

That's a no brainer. You gotta do it. Upton, Trout, Stanton in the OF for 5+ years makes those two easily expendable.

I don't know. It's fun having somewhat of a farm system again.

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

Sosh will still have Pujols bat right behind Trout and ahead of Stanton. 

Just like Sosh kept Pujols batting right behind Trout when we acquired Upton?

[HaloCory22]

12 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I don't know. It's fun having somewhat of a farm system again.

To play what position? They're both OFers and in this scenario there would be no spot for them.